CrazyBiker
Wizard
On this forum there are many people subjectively prejudiced about Ivan and his products. While I don't agree with his online persona totally either, I for one have personally experienced his FCE works great!
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FZ1 ECU Tuning
- Thread starter Hellgate
- Start date
accel_is_my_drug
Member
Megasquirt... done.
or
Haltech, Motec, all spac 4Cyl specific ecus that would be easy to hook up to our bikes... they are rather pricey though..... you ought to be able to look at crank angle sensor and determine picks ups... everything else would be pretty simple...
- Thread starter
- #143
Hellgate
Wizard
Hey guys I'm on the road again this week. I was home Saturday and packed up Sunday night. I've got a call into AF1 to see if they've received it.
As far as the specifics on how and what they do to the ECU call the supplier, but I can tell you this is much more complex than a Power Commander.
Are they adjusting or not adjusting all of the tables, I've no idea, but they are adjusting the tables that need to be adjusted to get the desired outcome. If it doesn't need to be tweaked they are probably not doing it. (Call me stupid but I moonlight as an IT manager at times)
I've found I've got a Yamaha KIT ECU on the R6. The next step it to ditch the PC3 from that bike a work directly to the ECU.
Piggybacks as fine and dandy, but if I can make the change to the ECU I'd prefer to do that.
CB you are cheap. :flip:
OUT!
As far as the specifics on how and what they do to the ECU call the supplier, but I can tell you this is much more complex than a Power Commander.
Are they adjusting or not adjusting all of the tables, I've no idea, but they are adjusting the tables that need to be adjusted to get the desired outcome. If it doesn't need to be tweaked they are probably not doing it. (Call me stupid but I moonlight as an IT manager at times)
I've found I've got a Yamaha KIT ECU on the R6. The next step it to ditch the PC3 from that bike a work directly to the ECU.
Piggybacks as fine and dandy, but if I can make the change to the ECU I'd prefer to do that.
CB you are cheap. :flip:
OUT!
- Thread starter
- #144
Hellgate
Wizard
Have you ever programmed one? Unless the programming is already done by the user community for your specific application you are on your own. A friend of mine has a K75 with a turbo and has weeks/months into coding, and days on the dyno. It is not an easy thing to do.
- Admin
- #145
FZ1inTX
Adminstrator
Ivan, my comments were based on what CrazyBiker brought over from the FZ1OA site and quoted above. They are in reference to that quote directly. Your comments listed above in that quote directly belittle the efforts of the ECUnleashed folks yet you have no idea what they've done or how they did the programming. Do you know for a fact they are not modifying all the tables? That they are messing with the timing? How do you know they do not know EXACTLY where the fuel cutoff resides and how to disable it?
I don't think anyone here has said the ECU reflash negates the need for a Power Commander, in fact, Pete even mentions that it still may be needed and will further enhance the bike's performance.
This isn't a question of burden but more of a challenge to verify your own work. The comments you made about reflashing are all negative yet there isn't any data to back it up. I'd love to see your maps vs. a reflashed ECU map. When I say terrible marketing, this is what I mean. For you to say the way you tune, mod and set up an FZ1 is that much better, you need factual data to back that up. Without it, and just like my view of you, it is opinion.
KNEEDOWN69
Well-Known Member
Im staying neutral here but my original thinking with messing with the bikes ECU is similar to Ivan's opinion. On the FZ1 there hasn't been enough demand for this service unlike a race bike like a R1 or GSXR, there seems to be too many unaccurate vairables in the tuning & programming process for me. Im not knocking the reflashed ECU in fact if i had a R1 i would probably look down that road, but the FZ1 is a sports tourer and no programmer is going to spend hours on it. Most of us open up the airbox and install smaller flies does the tune allow for this?. Why spend the sort of $$$ for this service when a PC3 and a dyno tune is custom and specific to your bike and not some generic programme. Also you can resell the PC3 once finished with the bike a reflash ECU cannot.
Lonerider59
Wizard
This ECU reflash subject has become quite an issue because I believe the term "reflash,is, in itself, a misnomer for whats actually being done to the software that is running in the memory banks of the ECU's hardware. My job in computers back in the 80's and 90's was to "fine tune" the software to make it opperate exactly as the customer wanted, from what left the factory. I believe about 5% of the software was what we called at the time move and changeable. The other 95% we didn't mess with and couldn't even get access to. Our book for doing this 5% worth of changes was about 150 pages just for the description and there were other manuals the size of the bible that actually went in depth as to what we were doing and how it affected the actions of the computer. New software usually had bugs that could take up to a year or better to get worked out and once in a while a patch wasn't available but band-aid fixes were put out to the field on how to correct a problem. Once in a while it was possible to make a change in one area that would have a reaction in an entirely different area of the machine because of shared files. Sometimes we even get a situation that caused "restarts" in the program which you definitely don't want because EVERYTHING stops and then starts over again. I'm not sure what's being done to the software in our situation here, but it's an extemely tedious task and there could still be problems unseen weeks or months after it's actually installed and run for a while. This is probably why companies who sell products like the PCIII or PCV use not messing with the ECU as a selling point.
Still waiting for the final verdict.
Still waiting for the final verdict.
- Thread starter
- #148
Hellgate
Wizard
Have you actually spoken to anyone or read the FAQs on the ECUnleased web site? They can account to mods etc. Also you state that because this is not a popular bike they would do a hack job vs a popular bike? That seems to be a bad business model to me. They will do a good job regardless. He'll they are currently working on Vespa and Piaggio and Aurilia flashes.
I think it is amazing that people build assumptions on assumptions and perceive it to be true.
If you have questions call and speak with the people who actually do the work.
Sent from my MB508 using Tapatalk
tkosmo
Member
Well shoot, this is kind of like I imagine it must be to fess up at an AA meeting, but I RIDE A STOCK FZ1 (whew, made it) and HATE band aid fixes, so I will be following this thread with great interest this fall and winter.
Thanks for taking the plunge for the whole forum, Pete!
Thanks for taking the plunge for the whole forum, Pete!
KNEEDOWN69
Well-Known Member
To answer your quesion, i have read alot about this process on the other forum and the Kawaski forum as i have a ZX6r racebike. There are mixed reviews from the few who have ventured down this path.
How many months have you been waiting for you ECU to turn up?. When you do get it back, silence the non-believers and do a dyno back to back test with the standard ECU.
I take my hat off to you for doing this and posting your findings, i know there are skeptics but don't take it the wrong way it is just a point of view. Hay i got almost ridiculed when i modified the stock headers to the same spec as the Yoshi headers & saved myself $500 by thinking outside of the box. :tup:
DJ NEZZ
Well-Known Member
Hi KNEEDOWN69, HI V when are U coming up to Auckland, U can stay at my my house my FRIEND.
- Admin
- #152
FZ1inTX
Adminstrator
Off topic but can you make a thread with that? Do you have pics along the way? Awesome!
Back on topic: I'm expecting gains from the newly flashed ECU but I'm not expecting mega-HP performance. I look at it this way... if for this price, one can get rid of the need for an FCE and a power commander and still get decent performance better than stock, you are SAVING money, right?
FCE = $200
PC = $300 (+/-)
Autotune = $200
That's $700 that you can possibly get by with by spending $450.
Pete has only been waiting this long because the company had never seen the '06 ECU so his ECU is all R&D which we know takes a LONG time. If I hadn't suggested the '06 ECU to Pete, he would have likely shipped his '10 ECU which HAS a ready flash and interface available and it would have been out, back and installed in about 30 days. The older ECU not only needed to have a complex mapping created but it needed a proper interface cable created first... all this without destroying his ECU. Hope that helps clarify the long wait for some of you.
All that said, If this eliminates the fuel cutoff, smooths the throttle and gains a few HP, the cheaper path using stock equipment is a clear winner! Agree? :tup:
- Thread starter
- #153
Hellgate
Wizard
Here's what I find incredibly funny about this whole deal...I'm the one who is spending the money on the flash and people want, no wait, demand that I spend more of my money on dyne runs!
I'll tell you guys what, Papal me $5.00 each until I get about $300 then I show you the dyne sheets. Dyne time is not cheap and properly document, stock vs stock with PC3 vs flashed, and include 1st to 3rd gear pulls isn't cheap. Also the dyne only tells a small part of the story. It doesn't document fuel cut, nor throttle quality, mileage, etc. Oh Snap!!! I guess you'll have to take my word on that.
Sent from my MB508 using Tapatalk
I'll tell you guys what, Papal me $5.00 each until I get about $300 then I show you the dyne sheets. Dyne time is not cheap and properly document, stock vs stock with PC3 vs flashed, and include 1st to 3rd gear pulls isn't cheap. Also the dyne only tells a small part of the story. It doesn't document fuel cut, nor throttle quality, mileage, etc. Oh Snap!!! I guess you'll have to take my word on that.
Sent from my MB508 using Tapatalk
Lonerider59
Wizard
I can relate to what Hellgate is saying. Everyone wants to do a critique or give advice but doesn't want to invest in the item, probably me included. I have a friend who won't spend a dime but he loves to give me advice on what to purchase, based on his education via magazine articles. When I was in the process of buying my Horton crossbow he had all kinds of reasons I should spend over a grand for a TenPoint but he wouldn't buy one himself. I spent around $275 or so and got my buck that year during the second bow season. Three years later he still says he's going to get a TenPoint bow. I'm not holding my breath. I'm really intersted myself in the reflash method of improving the ill's of the FZ1 and I believe that in a couple years it may very well be as common and relied upon as piggy-backs are today. From what I see in the rags and forums reflashing is becoming very popular. In our case Hellgate is just the forum Guinea Pig. I'm sure if we are all patient and take 10 deep breaths we'll all know how it turns out. Thanks for your willingness to share Hellgate.
- Thread starter
- #155
Hellgate
Wizard
It's in, should have it Saturday. I'm going to ride it for a couple of weeks then we'll hit the dyne.
Need to let the weather cool down a little more anyway.
OUT!
Need to let the weather cool down a little more anyway.
OUT!
johnnyontherocks
The Cosmic Avenger
Hope it works wonders for you Pete. You have the patience of a Saint.
KNEEDOWN69
Well-Known Member
KNEEDOWN69
Well-Known Member
KNEEDOWN69
Well-Known Member
Cheers mate, i am not planning at this stage yo come up to Auckz. I am thinking of doing a trackday in Taupo at the end of next month, i know it is a way to come but if your keen tag along or even better i will be doing Hampton Downs at some point next year, i cant wait as i have heard good things about Hamptons. Need to have afew of these also!!!:icon_beer:
CrazyBiker
Wizard
Yeah, but $350 for something that can't be resold is not economical when you can buy the addons used and break even when you sell them and probably get better performance. $350 needs to be justified through dyno charts and I am not expecting Pete to do this but I want to see the providers of the flash to show some charts.Off topic but can you make a thread with that? Do you have pics along the way? Awesome!
Back on topic: I'm expecting gains from the newly flashed ECU but I'm not expecting mega-HP performance. I look at it this way... if for this price, one can get rid of the need for an FCE and a power commander and still get decent performance better than stock, you are SAVING money, right?
FCE = $200
PC = $300 (+/-)
Autotune = $200
That's $700 that you can possibly get by with by spending $450.
Pete has only been waiting this long because the company had never seen the '06 ECU so his ECU is all R&D which we know takes a LONG time. If I hadn't suggested the '06 ECU to Pete, he would have likely shipped his '10 ECU which HAS a ready flash and interface available and it would have been out, back and installed in about 30 days. The older ECU not only needed to have a complex mapping created but it needed a proper interface cable created first... all this without destroying his ECU. Hope that helps clarify the long wait for some of you.
All that said, If this eliminates the fuel cutoff, smooths the throttle and gains a few HP, the cheaper path using stock equipment is a clear winner! Agree? :tup: