Former Fz6 rider, looking at getting Fz1, advice/help????

[M.Martin]

The way you are riding after only a few weeks, I would recommend not owning a sport motorcycle at all. It takes a lot of constraint to not use all that power! Anyone with that little time on a bike, who is already hot-roding around does not have the control to ride such a bike. You should be riding by yourself on country roads at the posted speed at least until you have a year or so in and 10-20k miles. Its not hard to hurt yourself or someone else when you're riding beyond your ability. If you chose to stay with a sport, slow down, start over and be careful. Just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it. :cowboy:

 

[Ssky0078]

The way you are riding after only a few weeks, I would recommend not owning a sport motorcycle at all. It takes a lot of constraint to not use all that power! Anyone with that little time on a bike, who is already hot-roding around does not have the control to ride such a bike. You should be riding by yourself on country roads at the posted speed at least until you have a year or so in and 10-20k miles. Its not hard to hurt yourself or someone else when you're riding beyond your ability. If you chose to stay with a sport, slow down, start over and be careful. Just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it. :cowboy:

Thank you and I hear you. The times when I have pushed it were country roads and on straight open clean sections of highway. Maybe you should come down to AZ, to keep up with traffic you almost have to go 10 over on a regular basis. If you go the posted speed here your an obstacle that everyone will drive around or over. You would not believe how many times I got honked at when going exactly the speed limit. I honestly never exceeded +20 which after talking to a civil engineer that told me when they design the roads and choose a speed limit it is 20 mph below what they think the maximum speed capable is for the road in good conditions (no rain, debris, temperatures etc).

Again the irony of when I had the crash is I was going at or below the speed limit. I hit gravel, can't do anything in that situation and it blended into the road becuase it was that black tar gravel crap when the old asphalt breaks down.

So, as soon as I get my new bike, I'm sure the memory of going down will be fresh in my mind and again I will drive as safe as I can be. It's all a matter of speed, traction, torque and lines.

Finally in my defense, the FZ is supposed to be considered a sport touring bike, not a supersport.

 

[Earlzach]

Forget the "Supersport" Sport Tour" crap. I feel do to lack of experience you would have crashed on a Kawi LTD 440.

The FZ1 is an animal. It actually produces more low to mid range punch over its racing style bike the R1. This being said your more likely to lose throttle control
due to a fast responce of power to wheel.

Dont get cought up in Bike classification, I ride a cruiser and would bet I out ride or even corner better and harder then a lot of Sportbike riders. I have over 25 years of riding experience and I know with all of my knowlage and ability I still ride every ride knowing I could go down due to conditions beyond my control. I think I havent gone down for 2 reasons. (1) God Looks after me, (2) I ride knowing Im not on a closed course and the conditions on the roads change daily. (Dirt, lose asphalt, dripped oil, rain changes the surface, etc...) I would recomend you get a new bike and work on a good riding techinque and let speed and handling come naturally. You need to develope and instinct for correcting a bobble.

Be sure to gear up. I like to say " Dress for the crash Not the Ride"

Quote to ride by " Before one can fly he must first learn to crawl then walk. One cannot fly into flight!"

I hope to see some good story posting by you soon from your new ride. Keep the rubber side down my friend.

 

[ethandf06]

Dude I have to completely disagree with the last two posts giving advice. The guy hit gravel there is no way to save it. Even extremely experienced riders can go down because of gravel. A blind corner heading in with a lot of speed what do you expect your leaned in for the corner your going to go down. Its a risk we all take when we are carving canyons. Its not a question about his skill. I don't think there is a reason to rip on the guys riding when we haven't seen it. All i have to say is even Valentino Rossi would go down if he hit gravel at speed carving a corner. Buy the FZ1 you wont regret it I promise. Next time when your riding though check road conditions or take a pre ride through the stretch of road your going to travel then have some fun. I doubt it will happen again. I don't care what type of street bike your on if you hit gravel when your leaning your going down.

 

[Ssky0078]

Dude I have to completely disagree with the last two posts giving advice. The guy hit gravel there is no way to save it. Even extremely experienced riders can go down because of gravel. A blind corner heading in with a lot of speed what do you expect your leaned in for the corner your going to go down. Its a risk we all take when we are carving canyons. Its not a question about his skill. I don't think there is a reason to rip on the guys riding when we haven't seen it. All i have to say is even Valentino Rossi would go down if he hit gravel at speed carving a corner. Buy the FZ1 you wont regret it I promise. Next time when your riding though check road conditions or take a pre ride through the stretch of road your going to travel then have some fun. I doubt it will happen again. I don't care what type of street bike your on if you hit gravel when your leaning your going down.

Thanks man, that was my feeling. I may have been able to save it with more experience and a less powerful bike. I talked to many riders around here telling them where I went down and the were all like "ohh well somebody dumps a bike off that road at least once a weekend." I had ridden down to Tortilla Flats and it was actually the return trip. There was no gravel on the side of the road I was on previously. On the way up I had felt the back tire slip once before on some loose $hit so I had let off the throttle and actually entered the corner I went down on at or a little below the speed limit. It was the next corner and I was going slow.

I posted the full story here
The Story of My First Crash 12-2-2012 - Yamaha FZ6 Forums - International FZ6 Motorcycle Community Forum

also my youtube video from the ride I took the day before (mute if you don't like the music)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8av6bvgevfE

I think I hold pretty good lines and don't push it too hard for the level of experience I am at.

I'm still thinking about an Fz1, there are a couple of smoking deals and I can always grow into it, the Fz6 may be a good trainer but I know for some of the long straight line riding that I have to do that it would probably be more comfortable on the Fz1.

 

[Dustin]

The guy hit gravel there is no way to save it. Even extremely experienced riders can go down because of gravel. I don't care what type of street bike your on if you hit gravel when your leaning your going down.

Well I agree that any rider can crash at any time, I respectfully disagree with the rest of those statements. :shoot:

 

[Ssky0078]

Well I agree that any rider can crash at any time, I respectfully disagree with the rest of those statements. :shoot:

I was talking with my friend who rides a HD Sport Glide. His budy who he said was a very experienced rider, pulling mile long wheelies at 100+ etc while changing lanes, shifting from second to 4th in the wheelie kind of experienced. He was on the freeway and a car started pushing the group he was riding with off the road. He effectively got out of the way of the car but caught a little bit of gravel that was on the shoulder, it washed his back tire out sounded like about 30 degrees and when it grabbed again he was thrown like 10 feet up in the air over the bars flying helmet first into a truck going 75 in the opposite direction. He lived, had 3 fractured vertebrae and was in the hospital a couple weeks. He was on at that time only on a Intruder 800 that his buddy had let him ride. He also wasn't speeding and or attempting anything crazy at the time, just riding defensively.

Another story and maybe it will shift the discussion. The doc that evaluated me said he was a paramedic in his prior career. He was driving along Speedway Blvd in Tucson and I guess there is a part of the road that comes up to a crest and on the other side there is a light and likely some traffic. A HD rider with a passenger blew past him going 50-60 and his partner in the EMT meat wagon. They knew it was going to be bad when they got up the road. And sure enough, the guy had to lay down the bike, it threw the girl off decapitating her on a street sign, he was impaled on the exhaust of the Tahoe that he slid under. Both died on the scene.

Now that as being a point of reference, for one the HD rider is an idiot for putting his life, the passengers life and the rest of the traffics life in danger. Second, how is the Fz1 braking power? Is it more well balanced than the Fz6?

 

[Earlzach]

Dude I have to completely disagree with the last two posts giving advice. The guy hit gravel there is no way to save it. Even extremely experienced riders can go down because of gravel. A blind corner heading in with a lot of speed what do you expect your leaned in for the corner your going to go down. Its a risk we all take when we are carving canyons. Its not a question about his skill. I don't think there is a reason to rip on the guys riding when we haven't seen it. All i have to say is even Valentino Rossi would go down if he hit gravel at speed carving a corner. Buy the FZ1 you wont regret it I promise. Next time when your riding though check road conditions or take a pre ride through the stretch of road your going to travel then have some fun. I doubt it will happen again. I don't care what type of street bike your on if you hit gravel when your leaning your going down.

No disrespect and not attempting to start anything. But your statement declaires every bike that goes into that corner will go down or has gone down?

Experience plays a huge roll in handling a bike. Gravel in a corner is one of the MANY MANY hazzards of street riding. Experience will tell you if your uncertain of the terrain SLOW DOWN! Not all bikes will crash in gravel. Just thoes that use it as an excuse for not riding correct for the conditions. An experienced rider tends to expect danger. He will too now that he has experienced it.

Dude go buy the FZ1 you will be a pro in no time. It sounds like you need more power and speed. after 6 months I dont see why your not on the circuit signing autographs. I hate to say it but letting you feel your ready to take on more power with your I want speed with no real experience is a recipe for disaster. Good luck!

Learn from the mistakes of others.

 

[Ssky0078]

No disrespect and not attempting to start anything. But your statement declaires every bike that goes into that corner will go down or has gone down?

Experience plays a huge roll in handling a bike. Gravel in a corner is one of the MANY MANY hazzards of street riding. Experience will tell you if your uncertain of the terrain SLOW DOWN! Not all bikes will crash in gravel. Just thoes that use it as an excuse for not riding correct for the conditions. An experienced rider tends to expect danger. He will too now that he has experienced it.

Dude go buy the FZ1 you will be a pro in know time. It sounds like you need more power and speed. after 6 months I dont see why your not on the circuit signing autographs. I hate to say it but letting you feel your ready to take on more power with your I want speed with no real experience is a recipe for disaster. Good luck!

Learn from the mistakes of others.

I did slow down. That's the fun part. As I watched the two friends I was with come up behind me, they just went outside of where this patch of loose crap in the road was by about 2-3 tire widths. The one guy even posted in our other forum he was amazed he didn't hit it. He didn't even see it riding up and had to go back down to look for it with the LED flashlight to even find it, and find my skid mark. But whatever.

View attachment 12666

I think the interesting assumption is that I was riding way outside of my skill set, squiding all over the place. I think the other interesting assumption is that any time I get on a motorcycle it will be balls to the wall (maybe you spend too much time in your cage and assume all sportbike riders are a-holes as well). The fun part is I'm a 34 year old doctor and have even had to treat patients with chronic pain and brain damage from motorcycle accidents. I'm in no rush to run out there and eff up my life. I'm just enthusiastic about the hobby/sport and want to stay excited.

I posted my same questions in the Fz8 forum and almost all members were like get the Fz8 you'll love it. I guess an Fz1 requires a person to be pro when they get it.

Ultimately I wanted to find out what the differences were between the Fz6 and an Fz1. In summary the productive comments were
1. More power, requires more respect for the throttle and better throttle control. One poster pointed out that you can get the front wheel up rather easy compared to the Fz6 coming out of a corner and may be possible to bust the back tire loose in a corner (both of which concern me and I will be thinking about)
2. The suspension adjustability is a plus, but for my size I will probably need to redo the front and back anyway.
3. The Fz1 bars are nicer than the Fz6
4. The Fz1 has a powerband that kicks in much lower in the RPMs compared to the Fz6, so back to that respecting the throttle thing.
5. It seems to be a split between people that think turn in and maneuvering is more difficult on the Fz1 compared to the Fz6

Nobody has answered the following
1. How is the stopping power/distance on an Fz1 compared to the Fz6? Too make it interesting for the all the pro-riders on here, let's add a mix of how easy it is to use engine/compression braking vs needing front/rear brakes? (on the Fz6 it's quite easy if you have the right gear selected and the right part of the power band, almost don't need to use the brakes as you can use gravity, friction and drag all to your advantage) BTW another smart a$$ remark is I'm assuming how you stop the bike is important too.
2. Is the throttle snag for the pre-2007 models really that big of a deal? I'm looking at 2009/2008 models anyway.

Thank you to all the forum members with positive feedback/input. To everybody else until you can average a hundred miles/day on your motorcycle I don't really care if you have 50 years experience of 2000 miles every summer. You basically start over every year. I'm sorry but that last tirade about thinking I'm a pro-rider pissed me off. I'm doing the responsible thing by asking actual owners of the motorcycle i'm looking to get about the pros and cons of it. And I sure as hell am not looking to push things and get into another accident any times soon. I had one friend tell me it's the best learning experience I could get considering I'm not seriously hurt and I will respect the motorcycle that much more.

I wish there was a smily icon for getting off a soap box

 

[Dustin]

. I had one friend tell me it's the best learning experience I could get considering I'm not seriously hurt and I will respect the motorcycle that much more.

I'll play devil's advocate and pose this question to you: What did you learn from your crash?

 

[Ssky0078]

I'll play devil's advocate and pose this question to you: What did you learn from your crash?

Ok, fair enough.

I learned that time of day makes a huge difference. It was just beginning to be dusk and making it that much more lilkely to miss crap in the road. I had my brights on with dual xenon bulbs and still didn't see the crap.

I learned that in questionable riding conditions because of the light and locatin, that even going 10 mph under the speed limit may have been better. Just going the posted speed limit or 5 mph under isn't enough of a slow down. A better estimation of where crap in the road is due to water flow patterns may have helped.

I learned that when the back tire busts loose let your hips swing with the bike but you somewhat have to hug it with your legs or you can get tossed high side. I had reflexively done this from riding mountain bike/bmx.

I learned that when the bike is getting away from you that you don't want to grab the throttle and you don't grab the brake. You do your best to stay lgiht on the controls and hopefully give the right input.

I learned that in a panic situation it is easy to target fixate and that you need to quickly readjust perspective toward the direction of safety. My probelm is that I kept picking spots too close to the edge fo the road.

I learned that instead of attempting to 'save it' I could have just come up completely straight and attempted a complete tire screeching stop. worse case I still would have dumped the bike at low speed, just a different location. And if not a complete stop at least a better job at the brake, repoint and follow new course (I did this attempt because if I came up to completely stop I would have gone straight over a 150 ft embankement. I chose to aim back in and at least stay on the shoulder). As the guy riding with me on the other forum who was riding with me pointed out I managed to find the small bit of shoulder before the embankement with only 10-15 feet on each side of where I came down. I was originally aimed at bout 25 feet before where I came down or about 10 feet of no man's land that I avoided to stay on the side of the hill.

I learned that the proper setup off the bikes suspension plays a huge roll in braking. After my back tire came out from me. I rollled off the throttle and the bike nose dived. The nose dive is what scared me from getting on the break more rather than readjusting direction because I was aimed at the cliff. This may be a problem to the Fz6 or the Yammi bikes anyway because they are built for 150 lb riders, not 250 like myself. Going forward I will not ride any challenging/dangerous roads with out my suspension being setup for my weight.

I think those are the main lessons I got out of the experience. I feel like there may be one or two more things in there that have crossed my mind in the last few days but can't think of them now.

 

[reignman]

thats one of the main things that comes with experience. being able to look down a stretch of road and point out anything that could potentially be an issue before you come up on it. if you see a gravel driveway, or a deteriorating cliff side you better bet that there will be gravel on the road. as you become more experience you wont have to focus as much on riding and you will be able to focus more on your surroundings. that's the big issue with getting on an fz1 or any bigger bike. im sure you are very capable of riding one but you will have to be so focused on controlling the bike that it will be easy for you to look over gravel in the road or a car that may switch lanes or turn in front of you.

 

[Ssky0078]

thats one of the main things that comes with experience. being able to look down a stretch of road and point out anything that could potentially be an issue before you come up on it. if you see a gravel driveway, or a deteriorating cliff side you better bet that there will be gravel on the road. as you become more experience you wont have to focus as much on riding and you will be able to focus more on your surroundings. that's the big issue with getting on an fz1 or any bigger bike. im sure you are very capable of riding one but you will have to be so focused on controlling the bike that it will be easy for you to look over gravel in the road or a car that may switch lanes or turn in front of you.

Thanks man, I knwo what you mean about the focus on the surroundings. After my 2nd or 3rd day I really began to make that a focused effort and by the second week I felt as comfortable if not more comforatable than in the car because of the increased visiblity compared to the cage. I actually was uncomfortable getting back in the car because I couldn't see as much in traffic.

Do people think that a lot of the skills driving translate over to a motorcycle? I grew up in Seattle and learned how to haul ass in the rain, while hydroplaning and still get home in one piece. Traffic was always thick and you had to anticipate.

 

[reignman]

Thanks man, I knwo what you mean about the focus on the surroundings. After my 2nd or 3rd day I really began to make that a focused effort and by the second week I felt as comfortable if not more comforatable than in the car because of the increased visiblity compared to the cage. I actually was uncomfortable getting back in the car because I couldn't see as much in traffic.

Do people think that a lot of the skills driving translate over to a motorcycle? I grew up in Seattle and learned how to haul ass in the rain, while hydroplaning and still get home in one piece. Traffic was always thick and you had to anticipate.

driving aggresively in a car is one thing. your safety bubble is the steel box around you. driving aggresively but still safely on a motorcycle is much more difficult. you have to create that little safety cushion around your self and maintain it. i dont see many similarities between driving and riding. other than im certain to watch out for other motorcycles when im driving because i know no one else is

 

[Dustin]

Before I ever got into riding motorcycles, I drove cars. I also raced cars & instructed novices for years. Once I started riding, I was surprised how few driving skills transferred directly to riding. In fact, many of the habits we form while driving are counter-intuitive to what motorcycles require.

A good example is throttle control. As a general rule, if you are going wide/understeering in a corner in a car, easing off the throttle briefly will help you tighten your line & maintain course with minimal drama. This is not the case on a motorcycle. If you find yourself going wide & reacting by rolling off the throttle, you will actually cause the bike to steer less and exacerbate the issue.

After riding bikes exclusively for a number of years, I always find it really fun to get behind the wheel of a car. It's so easy! It requires much less concentration & you have so much margin for error. So much fun

 

[Templar]

There is room for caution here. Any 1-litre bike puts you in a different club. Both the FZ1 and FZ6 are easy-to-ride bikes IMHO, but FZ1 is everything a FZ6 is, plus a little more. Apparently you had judgment problems with your FZ6 and committed rider error. From what I glean you showed poor judgment in *situational awareness*. You may not have your clutch awareness skills down, either. I would recommend more seat time riding twisty roads at your lonesome.

I can’t understand why you consider the FZ6 too tame. Any well tuned FZ6 will catch and pass a ‘Vette. I think the FZ6 handles very lively. I never had problems hanging with any other ride riding my FZ6.

Good luck and good riding!

 

[2wheelMax]

Buy the 2009 FZ1 and don't look back.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[fisherman322]

Buy the 2009 FZ1 and don't look back.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

If you would perfer the FZ1,I would buy it,you can get into trouble with either bike,just because it has more HP than the 6 doesn`t mean you have to ride it hard.I never run my FZ1 [ or any motor] near the red line.Just take it easy until at least you get the feel of it.

 

[captainmorgan]

I have a little advice from personal experience. I now have about 16,000 miles under my belt in just over 2 years of riding. I ride year round and have commuted to school (30 freeway miles there, 20 twisy miles back). I have gotten experience in rain and shine, with all kinds of hazardous conditions. My first bike was a seca 2. Less than 50hp at the wheel, 122mph top speed. I bought my fizzy recently, less than 3,000 miles ago, and I can say that I am glad that I waited. In the first couple of weeks on my jetted '02, i accidentally wheelied probably 5 times, one being in second gear out the apex of a turn (that was terrifying). The bike has a lot of power. If I had gotten this bike after even 5,000 miles of riding, I very well may have crashed. I do aggressive street riding and canyon carving is where I feel at home.

A month ago, I was riding at a (very) spirited pace, around 55mph, and came around a tight corner to see a giant patch of gravel in the middle of the road. I had enough time to jam the brakes hard (down to about 35mph) and then get back on the throttle to stabilize the bike and prepare for this next turn, full of gravel. I had no way to avoid it, so I chose a line that would run me off the road and I leaned my body off the bike. I helt the throttle steady, felt the bike slide about 4 inches sideways, and the second I got traction again, I dipped the bike hard to stay on the road. I made the turn with a couple of inches of road to spare.

Now, this is not to brag about my abilities, but the miles I have under my belt and a lot of experience saved my butt. Gravel isn't an automatic game over. I guarantee for every story of someone sliding out on gravel, there are several of people riding right over it.

Reading your posts, I can see that you are all business when it comes to riding. You do your homework and are clearly learning tons about technique and style that will help you a great deal. However, you don't yet have the experience to go with your knowledge. I only made it through that gravel patch because I burned these ideas into my brain through lots and lots of practice. My reflexes are no longer ruled by panic. It takes experience to get there.

If you get an fz1, you may be just fine. It also might end up a disaster. If you have the self control that I didn't when I was learning, and do a good job of staying in the 3-6k rpm range, you will likely be fine. Just be careful, though, as 20 hp kicks in in less than 1k rpms in the power band. I would recommend more time on a 600, or on something like the fz8.


In regards to your questions, I can't speak to the fz6 braking, but I can say that my bike stops on a dime. The dual discs make the braking ridiculously effective. The handling is also very nice, and the bike is really flickable if you understand countersteering. Suspension for a beginner will be just fine, even if you weigh 250. I weigh 220 and realize its limitations, but it is perfectly effective for a few thousand miles of taking it easy.

If you end up on the fizzy, great. I will look forward to seeing you on the forum. If not, stick around. There's a lot of nice guys who have a lot of knowledge. As for any that seem disrespectful or rude, try to think about intentions rather than their language. They are so serious about it because they don't want you to get hurt. It's a wicked fast bike.

 

[Klurejr]

You mentioned you ride MTB and BMX, how long have you been doing that?

I started riding Dirt Bikes in my early teen years and rode them for about 6-8 years. Rode Dirt bikes off and on until I was 33, and then I bought my FZ1 as my first street bike. I have dropped my bike twice, both times while stopped, once in parking lot when I forgot to drop the kickstand, and once a few weeks ago at a stop light on an off camber spot.

I have just over a year and 10k miles on a street bike, mostly commuting on the freeway.

I personally think just about any 2 wheel experience can make one a better rider. However you will need specific experience to your bike, your preferred area to ride (twisties, track, commuting on the freeway). In my case I have most of my experience on the freeway dealing with lots and lots of cars, but I have very little experience pushing in the twisties.

If you feel the 6 is too slow in a strait line the 1 will curb your appetite real quick.

If you want to get better in the twisties stick with a smaller bike and learn how to get more from it, or better yet participate in as many track days as you can so you can really learn how to push yourself in a safer environment.

I don't push myself, I just commute, but I went with a 1 over a 6 because I love that straight line speed one the few occasions I use it.

As to mileage, I regularly get 42-44mpg on my FZ1, from what I understand the Gen 1 bikes get much better mileage than the gen 2's do.

Let us know what you end up deciding. Really only you can come up with the correct answer.