Very strange problem with my Gen II (Updated with pics and info)

CrazyBiker said:
Now that you have a stock FZ1 to compare to, how does it feel compared to your modded unmapped one?
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A very different bike to ride. Jump from one to the other and (when mine is running great) the modded bike is much more responsive in the mid-range where I've targeted these mods. It's hard to compare on a full-on ride because I do not dare to do on her bike what I do on mine. Her bike is too low and if I was to mar that purple finish at all, she'd be VERY unhappy with me. So, All I have is some straight runs and not-so-aggressive corners to compare it. They do not feel like the same bikes for certain!

BTW, Engine ice is ordered. 4 1/2 gal bottles for $72 shipped. It will be here Friday. :tup: Gotta love this woman!!! :blowing_kisses: @ MrsFZ1inNH
 
FZ1inNH said:
I hope that come Saturday night I can report that the bike is running 110% after all this work! Cross 'em if you've got 'em people! :tup:
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I know you already have a plan of attack, but I don't know if you've been following my thread about my issues with the SpeedoHealer V4. Anyway, I have made some progress, the problem isn't totally solved but I can live with it if I have to. Your problem sounds so similar to mine, I just thought that you may want to try the same recalibration routine that I did.
 
might be a bit late but i had the same prob on a honda varadero, it drove me insane, i canged fuel pump, all pipes etc, tryed different fuel, but on constant throttle it still surged, turned out to be a dodgey side stand switch... hope this might help:icon_beer:
 
Hi don't know if you've already checked, but I had a similar problem and the cause turned out to be 1 faulty ignition coil. Alternatively,you can check you fuel hose from your tank to engine. Feel the hose from end to end to make sure there are no kinks:Rockon:
 
Thanks again everyone. A lot of stuff to check but I'm sure I'll find the problem eventually if all this work does not resolve it.

Plugs arrive tonight, K&N and Engine Ice tomorrow.

AIS plates are self-made. I took a set of original plates and hack-sawed off the hose nipples then filed the surfaces smooth to remove any impurities. I put duct tape over the holes on the outside, flipped them over and mixed some JB Weld and slightly over-filled both holes and left them to set up solid. I did not add the Duken $.02 to them though. ;)

Tonight I will pick up some distilled water and white vinegar, the FI rated 1/4" ID fuel line and the proper clamps. I'll grab a tube of dielectric grease too. I should be ready for a Saturday AM FZ1 make-over so long as the coffee pot is working.

This had better fix it because Sunday is supposed to be a spectacular day to ride!!! I may have to test ride in the rain Saturday mid-day if this all goes well. Our son with his S.O. are having a baby shower at 2pm so I'll have to break for that and resume when I get back.

I just hope it is nothing electrical... I hate chasing anything electrical for an issue but I will start with the coils/plug wires first. Those I can probably test when I do this work anyway on Saturday. Time to read the service manual.... CHECK!!
 
Don't be concerned about the tach not responding to these quick changes. The tach shows engine rpm and that cannot change quickly with these nearly instant surges since the bike is in gear and the engine is directly connected to the wheel and bike. Too much momentum going here to see instant very short surges and power drop outs.

But there do seem to be surges and power drop outs - leading me to believe it is a control problem - electrical I'm afraid - either fuel injection or ignition (spark timing).

Forget fuel line stuff or filters - you said the bike runs strong all the way up - so it is getting plenty of fuel through the fuel lines and filters.

Something is causing a "hunting effect" with the ignition or injection - in that speed range. It is wanting to speed up and slow down - sensor stuff - or computer stuff - or incompatibility between sensors and electronics. I don't know what changes you have made - but changes are always suspect.
Good luck.
 
  • AIS removal / Install blockoff plates - DONE
  • Replace OEM plugs with NGK Iridium set - DONE
  • Sync throttle bodies - DONE
  • Replace OEM fuel line with FI rated rubber and clamps - DONE
  • Flush cooling system / Replace with Engine Ice - DONE
  • Replace stock air filer with K&N - DONE
  • Clean and re-seat all connectors after applying dielectric grease. - DONE

Yes, I know... I went a bit overboard with the job... didn't NEED to take all that much off but since I was flushing the radiator anyway, I decided the whole job would be that much simpler if I did and boy was I right! :D

Here's what the homemade blockoff plates came out like. Rock solid with the JB Weld. This stuff cured for more than 48 hours and is VERY solid.

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Here is a peek at the AIS removal. I've heard about it being a bear to unplug... well, turns out the plug is quite jammed up but if you remove the hoses first then drop the whole unit, the plug is really easy to get to! First shot is with the AIS. 2nd is the unit removed. 3rd is with it removed and the 4th is with the new plates installed. 5th shot is now clean the top of the valve cover looks with this stuff out of the way. (That spot of paint missing on the valve cover? I've never been in there so it has to be from the dealer or delivered that way... ugh!)

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Next is a cool shot of the coolant drippage.... nice splash down! :D

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These next two shots are of the plugs in reverse order or as you see them in the head from the front, so 4, 3, 2, then 1. I don't think they looked bad at all but in went the Iridium plugs! (Yes, that second pic is me with the camera almost upside-down... )

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For you Gen II owners, you know about the issue with the kinked fuel line since Yamaha put on the cheap plastic pipe... well, here is proof! I bought an 18" FI rated rubber line with the proper clamps and replaced it. A LOT better!!

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Filling the oil... I found this cool funnel at a local auto parts store. It has measurements on the side, a debris screen in the base of the funnel, a valve to turn on and off the flow and you can cap the end of the tube. So, I bungie it to the throttle, stop the flow and measure out a quart, let it flow in, stop the flow, measure again.... well, you get the idea...

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So then it was the tedious task of syncing the throttle bodies. Someone on the other forum had mentioned that the easiest was to couple the Carbtune hoses to the OEM vacuum lines was to use the sprayer tube from a Windex bottle so I saved one and it works perfectly. First shot is the tubes in place. Next is the before-sync shot and the last is the closest I could get it. The adjustment screws are NOT in friendly spots for access!!!

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The idle was set for about 1300 RPMs throughout this and the engine was at temperature. After getting them dialed in, I slowly took it up to 3500 RPMs and held it. They all settled in at near perfect match. Released the throttle and it settled at a perfect match again. I'm happy with the end result. :Rockon:
 
I know I broke the cardinal rule of troubleshooting... "One thing at a time!" but I did not have time to try each of these things separately and keep tearing it down and assembling. Some of these just went hand in hand anyway.

I don't know if the issue is resolved yet. It's been a LONG day. I started this at 10:45am, broke for a shower and off to my son's baby shower (Granddaughter #2 is arriving next month!) then had to do some shopping then back here to finish out the job.

Tomorrow will be the test and a nice long day of riding so I'll report back tomorrow with a thumbs-up or down.

I did disconnect EVERY possible accessible electrical connection that I could possibly reach and gave them a cleaning squirt then a generous coating of dielectric grease, even the ECU plugs! Everything possible got the grease.

Note: I think it SUCKS where Yamaha put the radiator cap.... just sayin' :rant:

Over all, the whole thing went VERY well and I took my time to make sure I covered as many things as possible with this level of dis-assembly. I'm hopeful that I do not have any issue with the bike tomorrow short of having to stop for fuel.

BTW, the battery was disconnected and the ECU was out of the bike for several hours so the bike will have to re-learn and create its fuel map again tomorrow. ;) Pray the O2 sensor is working properly when she hits 600+ degrees!
 
well, let us know if your problem is solved....................I am curious, by unplugging the AIS solenoid isn't that going to trip a check engine lite?

Thanks
 
Cobalt Coupe said:
well, let us know if your problem is solved....................I am curious, by unplugging the AIS solenoid isn't that going to trip a check engine lite?

Thanks
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It hasn't on anyone else that I am aware of. I sure hope not. :D Ride coming in 20 minutes. So I'll report back tonight when I return. :tup:
 
Great write up hope it solves the problems. How hard was it to sync the TBs? You can believe that Im going to go through my bike the same way when I get home cause its been sitting for almost a year now :(
 
Ride report: 224 miles and it is still an issue. :( Although it is less pronunced and now limited to about 3500 to 4200 RPMs and it seems to be in 3rd - 5th gears.

At first she ran great! Thank about 5 miles down the road, it started bucking and surging again. So, now I know what it isn't. Time to take one step at a time.

First step... undo the SpeedoDRD and run without this in place. Might undo this later this evening for tomorrow and beyond...

Next step if this isn't the cause? We know it isn't the TB sync, plugs, electrical connections. I've replaced the coolant, oil and filter and air filter. I've cleaned and greased every possible connector I could get my hands on... The coils all tested within spec. No plug was fouled on removal. All cylinders are heating the headers and water evaporates evenly from each when sprayed.

Dunno.... Starting to pick things off though.
 
FZ1inNH said:
Ride report: 224 miles and it is still an issue. :( Although it is less pronunced and now limited to about 3500 to 4200 RPMs and it seems to be in 3rd - 5th gears.

First step... undo the SpeedoDRD and run without this in place. Might undo this later this evening for tomorrow and beyond...

N
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Before you remove it, you may just try using a Cal # that is way less or way more then where it is now. Of course if it's easier to remove it, that would tell you definitively if the problem is the DRD or not.
 
Update: Mostly solved! :D

I decided to try an experiment... thus far, it has paid off. It seems like the bike was definitely running with the aforementioned lean surge for sure. Because the bike operates in open-loop mode below a certain RPM and before the O2 sensor is warmed... Here is what I did. I disconnected the battery over night a couple days ago. I connected the battery and left for work after warming the bike up to 160 degrees. On the way to work, I ran for 4 miles straight at over 7500 RPMs. With the engine warm and sensors all working (now in closed loop mode) I was forcing the ECU to re-learn and map new fuel tables. This seems to have worked and has added the richer open-loop mixture back which was causing me trouble in the lower RPM ranges. I've had hardly any noticable trouble since this high RPM run and with the ECU running newly learned tables.

What this does tell me is that I've tipped the scale on modifications and will need either the PC III, PC V or the reprogrammed ECU. I think I will start saving my money toward the PC V and an autotune for it. It's either this or go back to stock and sell off all the mods. BTW, paypal donations accepted. ;)
 
FZ1inNH said:
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What this does tell me is that I've tipped the scale on modifications and will need either the PC III, PC V or the reprogrammed ECU. I think I will start saving my money toward the PC V and an autotune for it. It's either this or go back to stock and sell off all the mods. BTW, paypal donations accepted. ;)
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It does sound like some tuning will be needed. Just get a PC V and forget about the Autotune...doesn't really work very well. I should know as I tried it and wasn't impressed. Short of getting the bike dyno tuned there are plenty of free maps out there as you well know.
 
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