Doogie2.0
Well-Known Member
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Timing tensioner
- Thread starter Doogie2.0
- Start date
Fair warning I've never done this. Short answer yes. Do you have the service manual?
Paraphrase:
When re-installing, lightly press the tensioner rod by hand while turning the rod with a small screwdriver fully clockwise. While holding screwdriver at full clockwise, install the cam chain tensioner and gasket. Tighten tensioner bolts to 7.2 ft.lbs, then remove the screw driver making sure rod releases, then tighten the cap bolt to 8.7 ft. lbs of torque.
Don't turn motor while it's removed.
Best to read manual yourself.
Paraphrase:
When re-installing, lightly press the tensioner rod by hand while turning the rod with a small screwdriver fully clockwise. While holding screwdriver at full clockwise, install the cam chain tensioner and gasket. Tighten tensioner bolts to 7.2 ft.lbs, then remove the screw driver making sure rod releases, then tighten the cap bolt to 8.7 ft. lbs of torque.
Don't turn motor while it's removed.
Best to read manual yourself.
Doogie2.0
Well-Known Member
Hey thanks. I will get the manual. Thanks for the info..Had a buddy try to put it in today. He did everything wrong.
Doc Samson
Well-Known Member
Here is a copy if you want to download it -
Doogie2.0
Well-Known Member
Thanks Doc!
Don't remember too many Gen 1owners ever having to deal with the tensioner. On other inline fours that I have owned I've seen owners destroy their motors screwing up either tightening of the tensioner or replacing it. Problem typically comes from chain being loose and skipping tooth on the cam sprocket, then a big bang when valves hit pistons.
I've mentioned it before but the 10 part series on Youtube by Dewoody's shop, covers every thing you could possibly encounter on a Gen 1. It's got great camera work, expert advice, and no stupid loud thumping background music.
Here's Part 3 on adjusting valves:
. You might have to flip through the various videos to find a specific issue like tensioners but it couldn't be more straight forward.
I've mentioned it before but the 10 part series on Youtube by Dewoody's shop, covers every thing you could possibly encounter on a Gen 1. It's got great camera work, expert advice, and no stupid loud thumping background music.
Here's Part 3 on adjusting valves:
You're a one man gang, isleoman.
Thanks for all the info.
Thanks for all the info.
Those DeWoodys Shop videos are priceless. They never got much mention on FZ1OA.
Doogie2.0
Well-Known Member
Thanks for info, I really appreciate it! You know I ran the bike earlier the day before, I run my bike hard, I hate to admit that but I do. So the day before I was running on I -10 80>90 mph staying up with traffic. I get home no noise nothing unusual, I park the bike. Next day I crank it and timing chains rattling. Pulled the tentioner out, put it back in and cranked it. No more chain noise. So I took it off again and the plunger was stuck. I ordered one should be in Fri. When I put this one in , I'm going to spin the engine over with a wrench before I crank it again. But yeah it's odd it just goes out like that. I do have 37k miles. Maybe it was time. IDK.
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Episode 10 at 2:51 mark is tensioner going back in.
Wife walked by and said WTH are you watching, my response "a video with a happy ending".
I went 150K on my first engine, 150 K on my second engine and 60K on my spare bike's engine and never touched the tensioners.
37K is a young pup. In Massachusetts on I-95, 80-90 wouldn't keep up with the cheap sub compacts, driven by girls (or boys) putting on make up , while talking on the phone, and drinking a coffee.
Oh and only one valve check in 360K, and everything was in tolerance. Ride more, worry less. It's not just a saying , it's a way of life.
37K is a young pup. In Massachusetts on I-95, 80-90 wouldn't keep up with the cheap sub compacts, driven by girls (or boys) putting on make up , while talking on the phone, and drinking a coffee.
Oh and only one valve check in 360K, and everything was in tolerance. Ride more, worry less. It's not just a saying , it's a way of life.
Doogie2.0
Well-Known Member
I like that, ride more worry less. I got to thinking about that chattering sound the bike made when I cranked it. I was so disapointed in my bike. All ive read was how bullit proof these engines are. And I mean this bike Flys, it's been jetted and full exhaust. 120 hp at the rear wheel. I was so proud of it, no one could hang with me. And now this. I think just to be safe, I'm pulling the valve cover off and physically inspect the chain. Make sure nothing inside came loose.
Clean the crap out of the cover and the coolant and spark plug recesses (compressed air if you've got it) or you get dirt down onto the cams and things.
There's no way some small pebbles or tar balls got into your radiator shroud and the fan is hitting them?
Personally I would re-install the new tensioner and if the noise is gone I'd forget about it. What kills Gen 1s is living on one wheel (starving the oil pump) and missing a shift.
Having said that........ I didn't hear the noise that has shaken your confidence.
There's no way some small pebbles or tar balls got into your radiator shroud and the fan is hitting them?
Personally I would re-install the new tensioner and if the noise is gone I'd forget about it. What kills Gen 1s is living on one wheel (starving the oil pump) and missing a shift.
Having said that........ I didn't hear the noise that has shaken your confidence.
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Doc Samson
Well-Known Member
That is amazing! I don't think I could do that, i.e. not worry about valve clearance for that many miles. If tolerances were good on the first check, I might be able to let it go a little longer but 300+k? I think I'd have trouble sleeping at night...
Responsible adults should follow maintenance logs.
My theory on valve checks was / is I have $2500 bikes. If you have the dealer do them it was $400-$500 every 25K miles to get the valves checked. So in 150K miles I would have spent the cost of a replacement used bike. I've never seen an overhead valve car get it's valves checked. With the motor on my first gen 1, I never noticed a drop off in performance, I did end up with oil use (no smoke) just a pint of oil every 2500 miles or so. Well within acceptable limits of many modern cars.
I was going to do a second valve check on that motor when I saw a 3K mile motor on FZ10A for $400. That was a No Brainer.
Second engine never saw a valve check, same results. As I got near 100K on that motor a complete 01 with 5000 miles popped up on FZ10a for $3000 ,so I bought it as a spare. The second motor kept running and runng and the spare bike never got used, till I had a get off. Now the spare bike has 60K.
If a good prosecutor got me on the stand he would challenge my theory by asking "Well Mr. IOM, if that is your real name, I understand valve checks are expensive, and it's getting harder to find mechanics willing to do them, but why not do them yourself." Case Closed I'd have no rebuttal and I'd be in valve check prison for valve abuse.
Luckily I just drove by the "Statue of Limitations" and what a lovely statue it is.
Speaking of the cost of maintenance I'm now on my 50th set of tires. At an average cost of $300/set = (the cost of two brand new Gen 1s). I tell the wife it's the Price of Freedom.
My theory on valve checks was / is I have $2500 bikes. If you have the dealer do them it was $400-$500 every 25K miles to get the valves checked. So in 150K miles I would have spent the cost of a replacement used bike. I've never seen an overhead valve car get it's valves checked. With the motor on my first gen 1, I never noticed a drop off in performance, I did end up with oil use (no smoke) just a pint of oil every 2500 miles or so. Well within acceptable limits of many modern cars.
I was going to do a second valve check on that motor when I saw a 3K mile motor on FZ10A for $400. That was a No Brainer.
Second engine never saw a valve check, same results. As I got near 100K on that motor a complete 01 with 5000 miles popped up on FZ10a for $3000 ,so I bought it as a spare. The second motor kept running and runng and the spare bike never got used, till I had a get off. Now the spare bike has 60K.
If a good prosecutor got me on the stand he would challenge my theory by asking "Well Mr. IOM, if that is your real name, I understand valve checks are expensive, and it's getting harder to find mechanics willing to do them, but why not do them yourself." Case Closed I'd have no rebuttal and I'd be in valve check prison for valve abuse.
Luckily I just drove by the "Statue of Limitations" and what a lovely statue it is.
Speaking of the cost of maintenance I'm now on my 50th set of tires. At an average cost of $300/set = (the cost of two brand new Gen 1s). I tell the wife it's the Price of Freedom.
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Doogie2.0
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I think that's what I'm going to do, install the new tensioner and leave it alone.
bunk
Well-Known Member
Is the tensioner oil pressurized?
Doogie2.0
Well-Known Member
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe so bunk
From a Triumph website posting:
The most common design used today is essentially a spring driven worm and sector type set up. There is normally a housing that bolts to the cylinder in such a way as to bring the plunger of the tensioner to bear on a swinging tensioner shoe, as in the picture above. The plunger itself has an internal screw gear cut into it, and is keyed to the housing so that it cannot rotate along its length. A torsion coil spring is anchored to the housing and drives a shaft cut with a worm gear the threads into the plunger. This is the part that you turn to release tension when servicing.
As slack appears in the chain, the spring is able to rotate the internal shaft steplessly until the slack is gone, but if the chain tries to push back on the plunger, it cannot do so any more than you can pull a bolt out of a threaded hole without turning it; worm gears can't be back driven. Simple.
The most common design used today is essentially a spring driven worm and sector type set up. There is normally a housing that bolts to the cylinder in such a way as to bring the plunger of the tensioner to bear on a swinging tensioner shoe, as in the picture above. The plunger itself has an internal screw gear cut into it, and is keyed to the housing so that it cannot rotate along its length. A torsion coil spring is anchored to the housing and drives a shaft cut with a worm gear the threads into the plunger. This is the part that you turn to release tension when servicing.
As slack appears in the chain, the spring is able to rotate the internal shaft steplessly until the slack is gone, but if the chain tries to push back on the plunger, it cannot do so any more than you can pull a bolt out of a threaded hole without turning it; worm gears can't be back driven. Simple.
I would think if operated by oil pressure it would leave timing chain loose for a moment at start up while oil pressure is built.
I'm also confused as to why a manual chain tensioner would be desirable. I've seen them on Gen 1s and a lot of old skool drag bikes. There must be a video somewhere that explains them. Must be afraid of spring failure with conventional ones.
I'm also confused as to why a manual chain tensioner would be desirable. I've seen them on Gen 1s and a lot of old skool drag bikes. There must be a video somewhere that explains them. Must be afraid of spring failure with conventional ones.