Timing advance

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m4ximusprim3

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I did a search but haven't found much on this subject for the FZ1.

Dale's kit has a 3* timing advancer, while Ivan specifically states that you shouldn't advance the timing unless you significantly increase compression.

Anyone have this installed on their gen1 and what results have you seen? Any pinging/detonation on low octane pump gas or any of the other warning signs you'd usually see with the timing advanced too far?
 
JoshuaKahl said:
I made my own when I had my 1st Gen and had nothing but positive results...
Click to expand...

I just did the same :+1:
Curiosity got the best of me this weekend.
I’ve read a lot of positive reviews about advancing the timing on these gen1 FZ1s lately. It seems most people are paying $35 for the ELS advancer and benefits included claims of,
1) Faster starting
2) More HP
3) Quicker revving
4) More low end TQ
5) Better fuel economy.

Numbers 1 and 5 particularly intrigued me. But I didn’t want to pay $35 if it wasn’t going to work, or worse force me to run higher octane fuel to prevent pre-ignition.
My bike is mostly stock with only an Ivan’s jet kit installed by the previous owner.
I pulled my pickup cover off and was pleasantly surprised to find the 10 year and 116,000 mile old gasket came off undamaged. So I put back the roll of gasket material I expected to use to make a replacement.
Using my standard ½” drive ratchet + 3 foot long steel pipe I removed the bolt that held my stock advancer in place, then carried it and a set of jewelers files inside out of the sweltering heat.
38inch.jpg

Holding the stock advancer up to a picture of the ELS 4degree advancer on my computer screen (conveniently the exact same size) I found the two parts identical other than the location of the keyway. So I took out the ultrafine files and while watching TV went to work. Slowly, ever so slowly removing material from the left side of the keyway, periodically holding it up to the computer screen and comparing it to the image of the ELS advancer. When my part matched the image on the computer screen I went back out into the heat (with some Ice water) and reinstalled it on the bike. Of course now the key way is much larger than the pin that holds the ignition advancer in place and I don’t want it’s position changing unbeknownst to me while riding, so I grabbed a set of feeler gauges and measured the gap between the locating pin and now enlarged keyway. I found the gap to be exactly 0.020” Then I simply cut a very small piece off my .020” feeler gauge to make a shim
advancer1.jpg

and slid it between the right side of the pin and the advancer.
utf-8BSU1HMDAzNTktMjAxMjA3MjgtMTgxMS5qcGc.jpg

Aside from being pinched between advancer and pin the shim is also trapped between a large flat part of the crankshaft and the large washer and bolt that holds the advancer in place.

I reinstalled the original gasket and cover and am happy to report it sealed back up perfectly with not even a drop of oil leaking out over my 450 mile test ride.
As for my riding impressions.
Claim #
1) faster starting-I couldn’t tell any difference
2) More HP- I couldn’t tell any difference
However it is unlikely I would feel a gain of only a couple of HP, and unlikely a modification like this with no other changes could net more than a couple of ponies
3) quicker revving- I couldn’t detect any change
4) more low end TQ- Yup you guessed it I couldn’t feel any difference. Maybe I’m just not sensitive enough to these things, Maybe it’s my particular combination of parts, or maybe it’s a case of people expecting their bike to be faster so it feels faster. I knew a guy once who believed applying armor all to his the rubber hoses in his engine compartment made his car faster.
5) Better fuel economy- Weight, this isn’t subjective. I can actually measure this and do at every fill-up. I topped off the tank with 87 octane and went for a 450 mile ride, (no problems with preignition, but keep in mind my jetting is a little richer than stock) a good hard tire melting ride. I recorded 49.7mpg, a 5% improvement over my average 47mpg . This might have been a fluke so I reset the trip and ran out another tank, this time at a less spirited shall we say 70% pace. Then left it parked in my hot garage until this afternoon when I took it back out and topped her off.
The result this time was a very impressive 51mpg that’s nearly 8% higher than stock average fuel economy with no other changes. It will be interesting to see what a week of commuting returns but so far I am happy with the results.
Worth every penny I didn’t spend.
The only thing I regret is that I didn’t do this 90,000 miles ago. At current fuel prices this mod could have saved me $300 over the last 4 years. Heck, that’s a set of tires..
 
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Only difference I found was less vibes in the mid range, and slightly better fuel economy.

That may only be because I used to like to get out of that pesky buzzy mid range into the nice smooth top end :evillaugh:
 
JoshuaKahl said:
I made my own when I had my 1st Gen and had nothing but positive results...
Click to expand...

+1. Josh helped me out with mine, it takes 15 minutes and a small file to accomplish. I noticed slightly better low end pull, and a snappy throttle. Gas mileage, no idea my riding varies too much to matter. But do not pay for this mod. I believe it is on pats fz1 page, ill look for the link later.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
 
Giving this one a shot on my 6R. The trigger wheel is a bit different on the 6R but same principle. Trying 0.020" at first. From starting the bike and blipping the throttle the engine seams to rev a bit quicker. But a nice will give me a better feel for the change. Got the AutoTune "Enable" again...

Just to give me a idea... what is the timing advance "spec" for the FZ1? The 6R is 6.5 degree.
 
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firefly said:
How did you guys hold the crank from spinning while loosening & tightening the bolt?
Thanks
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put the bike in gear and slide a piece of wood between the rear wheel and swing arm. I use the same method for countershaft sprockets.

drago said:
Is there a way to tell if the P.O. had put one on ?

Thanks,Al
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remove the inspection plug. you should be able to see enough of the advancer to tell if it is oem or after market. They have different markings on the outside. The plug has a reuseable O-ring on it.

still_bluenoser said:
Only difference I found was less vibes in the mid range, and slightly better fuel economy.

That may only be because I used to like to get out of that pesky buzzy mid range into the nice smooth top end :evillaugh:
Click to expand...



My fuel economy differed with different levels of advance I found the best fuel economy with a 2 degree advance, but the best performance with a 4 degree advance (still better mpg than stock).
 
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Timing advancer

Put my 4 degree advancer in Sat. Definately started quicker. Now as soon as you hit the starter button, the FZ is running instantly. It's almost like magic.

Seemed like it improved throttle response slightly (A$s dyno); however, it was not as much improvement as the advancer on my 1200s Suzuki Bandit.

Hopefully MPG will go up.

I read that the advancer would reduce engine temps slightly. Anyone notice a change in engine temps after the install???
 
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