surging

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cheapshots

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so i did some searching and it looks like i'm not the only one with this,however it did look like i may be the only one with a juicebox and not a pc.same surge as others,small throttle, around 3to5k nothing big, just bugs me.anyway mods in this area are tb slip-on juicebox (which is set for there so.cal shop,I'm real close to there elev.A little more moist a lot of the time)and ais block off.Did the fine tune of the pc take of this.Oh ya and rowing through the gears it works great thankx for any input.Ed
 
Not good at any rpm, but at that rpm, even worse as you have tricky city stuff or mega tight twistie stuff.

Never heard of this problem, but I'd first reduce fuel in that rpm cells on the pc map. If that doesn't help, and none of the tech guy here can help, I would hire a tech guy, as this one would make me sweat.
 
Ed, I have a bunch of mods but no juicebox or pc installed. Same issue. People with and without a module all complain about it. I know of one person that started looking into the TPS, throttle position sensor, and found that at those RPMs, the contact surface of the TPS was worn more. After they'd made a very slight adjustment of the TPS, the problem went away.

After several pages of research, trial and error, Copperdog had this to report:

Copperdog said:
TPS!


Well, my bike is back to 100%. As I mentioned, I had changed, the TPS and the results seemed to be - no improvement. So I checked coils last night and changed the plugs today, and while there seemed to be something different, the stuttering and stammering was still there.

So I got to thinking about all of what has happened with my bike and how I had come to my conclusions and something didn't seem right. As I mentioned I had tried almost every available map PLUS putting the bike back to stock with no improvement. But there were maps that definantly made things worse. So I went back, and studied the differences in the maps. Maps such as JD's were tweaked for his bike and as such had very lean low end numbers compared to other maps that seemed to work better in my bike. However no map - not even going back to stock solved the problem completly so I began to look else where for the problem.

At this point the indications are that the bike is way too lean on the low end but I cant get it rich enough plus there is this stuttering effect. So I once again I stripped the bike back down and looked at the TPS. The TPS has oval slot for the mounting bolts so that it can be rotated to adjust the voltage output at a given throttle setting. As I mentioned, I had installed the TPS but did NOT set its output settings because I did not have the right tool. Rather I just installed it in roughly the same position as the stock one. The ECU reads the voltage to determine what the throttle setting is and thus deliver the correct fuel. If the TPS is rotated the wrong way - even slightly - the ECU is delivering fuel at the wrong rate. And at the bottom the wrong rate WOULD be lean.

SO what the hell - on a hunch, I loosened the TPS, rotated it slightly in the "more throttle" direction, and tightened it up. Different bike - the stuttering is gone and the bike is now acting rich!! Ah yes, it should since I have richened the low end right? One last step


So I reinstalled JD's map to the PC3 and go for a ride - and holy hell my bike is BACK. I can roll on any gear at any RPM and the delivery is butter - butter I tells ya! My mid range is MAMMOTH - second gear power wheelies are back and first gear is outrageous. I can stand on the pegs at 4K in first and with a real hard push and then pull on the bars, bring the bike straight up. Down shifts from third to second feel like my first gear clutches used to. I swear I hit "ludicris speed" today and it was magical. And this stupid grin - I cannot wipe off my face - I need a beer .
Click to expand...
 
maybe i made it sound worse than it is ,it's only with throttle in one place ,if i'm working the throttle it runs great.This is the same stuff i was reading from other guys from about 8 or so months ago.My 1st call will be to tb as they have been rael good in the past,and then there's a good shop that's close and knows two bros stuff.that is if no one knows here thankx ed
 
No, this is what you're experiencing. Mine is the same. Starts and idles fine, running her out is great... cruising in the 3 - 5k range, it studders, surges, etc... Crack the throttle and she's dead-on smooth again.... that sound right?
 
You can try to rotate your TPS a couple degrees at a time to see if it takes care of it but I'd go no more than 5 - 6 degrees in 2 degree increments. You'll need a security torx bit to loosen the two screws. The bottom one can be easily reached under the frame. I just cannot remember if I went clockwise or counter-clockwise??? I'm almost sure it is clockwise.

There are two identical units in there, but one is the TPS and the other is the servo for the sub-throttle plates. You'll want the one on the left if you are looking down as if sitting on the bike. This will change the idle and make the fuel mixture richer. Reset the idle to about 1200 RPMs with the engine at running temp.
 
From the other board, you can check the TPS settings by doing the following:

The trick to getting into diagnostics mode.

1) Turn key to off
2) Turn ignition kill switch to run
3) Hold the select and reset button at the same time
4) Turn the key to run
5) Continue to hold the two buttons and count to about 10 at this point the display will show "d1"
6) Release the two buttons
7) Repress both buttons for 2 sec and the display will show d:01_____17

The 17 that I get, can be anything from 15-18. This is the throttle position reading. As you S L O W L Y roll on the throttle, the number on the dash has to roll smoothly up to between 95 and 100 at WOT

If you get any jumping or holes in the numbers the TPS is the issue and must be repaired.

Turn the key off and then back on to exit Diag mode.
 
Ed, I rotated mine a couple degrees some time ago and while it's not completely resolved, it is better than before. I suspect I'll need a new TPS if this one wears in at the new setting though. About $110 for one online. Maybe though, if enough people complain to Yamaha, they might issue a recall on it. They did on the FZ6 models. :D
 
NP! Hey, I found the quote with how you determine the direction to turn this:

"When you get the Airbox off, you will see the TPS is attached to a pulley system where the throttle cables rotate the mechanism. When you twist the throttle - note its direction and how it correlates to the TPS - rotating the TPS in the oposite direction is the same as twisting the throttle."

The TPS is in front of the #2 throttle body. If you look at any of the on line micro-fiche parts places, it is in the "Intake 2" section. Part #2 here: Ronayers.com Fiche Desktop Motorcycle Yamaha 2008 FZS10X INTAKE 2

THROTTLE SENSOR ASSY

Mfg. Part Number: 2D1-85885-00-00
Our SKU: 1289748
MSRP: $157.24
Your Price: $111.64
 
cheapshots said:
so i did some searching and it looks like i'm not the only one with this,however it did look like i may be the only one with a juicebox and not a pc.same surge as others,small throttle, around 3to5k nothing big, just bugs me.anyway mods in this area are tb slip-on juicebox (which is set for there so.cal shop,I'm real close to there elev.A little more moist a lot of the time)and ais block off.Did the fine tune of the pc take of this.Oh ya and rowing through the gears it works great thankx for any input.Ed
Click to expand...

Not sure if this helps but have gone thru this on mine.when it was bog stock it felt like the exup valve was over active at a steady throtle possition under 5k giving it a surging feeling,removed exup and put a slip on muffler elimenating this feeling now it gets a flutter in the 3-4k range but can be stopped with a gear change or slight change in throttle position.now i have found that there seems to be a change in fueling/fuel map above or below 80 c on the dash temp gauge.
tb slip-on juicebox,what is this.:shame:
 
I posted this on the other Fz1 site but think that your problems could be mine, what do you think ??

"I was just wondering if anyone could give me any advice as to why my bike seams to be surging in 4th gear.

I went out today to scrub my new tyre in, so was taking it easy, but i noticed when i was in 4th and taking it steady (about 3-4k revs) the bike would surge forward as though it wanted to go but i was somehow holding it back. It didn't do it in any other gear so i decided to change the map, it did it again while trying another 2 maps.

Has anything liked this happened to anyone else ? and what was the fix ?

Tobe honest , i was running JD map, i was wondering if it was map connected so i tried 2 others including the latest perfection map and it did it with all of them.

I called in somewhere local today and he took the bike out and said he could also feel it 3rd but it was much worse in 4th. He thinks i might need to balance the throttle bodies, he also felt there was something wrong with the throttle, he thought it was stiff/tight while the engine was running but seamed to snap back while it was off. Hes going to have a look at it next week. he also believes it will be happening in ever gear but 4th at low revs is where it is felt the most

As i have said i don't have the FCE, do you think this could be related or not if it could be then he'll fit one as well, the more info the better for him to work with

so guys if this is the same problem as yours would the moving the TPS work every time or does it really need replacing??

Thanks for any advice/help but this surging has really pissed me off:frown:
 
First :welcome: to the site!

I would do two things. Do a two degree rotation then try the bike out. If that does not resolve it, then sync the throttle bodies and try again. If you still feel it is out of spec, run the diag mode I posted above. Look for jumps in the numbers while rolling the throttle. We're talking 8 to 10 numbers at a time in any one range. If this is the case, you can try to replace the TPS.

Before you replace, let me ask this. How many miles are on the bike? Are you still running the stock plugs? What year is it?

Let us know and we'll do what we can to help. :D Ride safe!
 
FZ1inNH said:
First :welcome: to the site!

I would do two things. Do a two degree rotation then try the bike out. If that does not resolve it, then sync the throttle bodies and try again. If you still feel it is out of spec, run the diag mode I posted above. Look for jumps in the numbers while rolling the throttle. We're talking 8 to 10 numbers at a time in any one range. If this is the case, you can try to replace the TPS.

Before you replace, let me ask this. How many miles are on the bike? Are you still running the stock plugs? What year is it?

Let us know and we'll do what we can to help. :D Ride safe!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome,

Ive done about 27k and just had my valve clearances checked, new plugs, iridium ones. its 2007. Its strange that i have never noticed anything b4 i got my HEL brake lines fitted last week, coincidence ??. I also checked my fuel line and could it be possible the kink could have anything to do with it ?
 
This is exactly the issue that I was working on in the latest Dukes stage one smoothed map. As it turns out, duke was working on the same issue with his stage 3 perfection map. This is most noticable at about 3000 RPM on a down hill run in first of second gear. It will sound like a warble type sound.

I turns out that these motors want a bunch of fuel from about 2500 thru about 3500 RPM in the 0, 2 and to a lesser degree in the 5 degree columns.

Hope this helps

AW
 
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