High octane gas

eurban said:
markowinnipeg,
Did the mods from Ivan alter ignition timing or change the engines compression ratio??? Certainly a Jet kit and an exhaust pipe should have no effect on the octane requirements of your bike. . .

On the East coast of the US (and probably for much of the US) it is nearly impossible to find street gas without ethanol in it, regardless of octane. Gas mileage definitely suffers a bit with 10% E. The stock FZ1 is designed to run on 87 octane gas so unless you like wasting money, there is no reason to use anything else.
That said, my particular setup uses the Dynojet ignition module to alter ignition timing from stock and according to Ivan (whose ignition "map" it is) is optimized for mid grade gas.
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Maybe I am just having bad luck with 87 ethanol fuel around here but there is a difference. Bike would run rough and hesitate, then I would run some sea foam though it and go back to 91 and runs fine. On my sled 2008 Yamaha Nytro you can tell the difference with the sled running better on 87.
I will give it another shot and let you know.
Honestly with the ethanol it was like running a bike with sprak plugs that are on their last legs.
 
Lonewolf said:
If your motorcycle has a high compression ratio, as most bikes do these days, you may be interested to know that the higher the octane the fuel, the better your engine will perform.
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The above statement is simply untrue. You only need enough octane to prevent Knocking with full ignition advance (also called knock, detonation, spark knock, pinging, pre-ignition ect)
Higher octane fuels burn slower and without a doubt make less power ! If you have enough octane to run the ignition at optimum advance any more octane will reduce power.
Proven on the dyno. You can see a reduction of 2-5 horsepower on the dyno with excessive octane. Any octane above what an engine needs to prevent knock ( at full advance ) WILL REDUCE POWER !! IT BURNS SLOWER !

People believing higher octane makes more power is one of the longest lived most repeated myths !!!!!!!!

Compression ratio alone has little do do with an engines octane requirements. The size/shape of the combustion chamber, efficiency of the ignition system, the design of the cylinder-head and a hundred other variables determine each engines octane requirements.


THE ABOVE STATEMENTS APPLY TO FUEL AVAILABLE AT THE PUMP AND DO NOT NECESSARILY APPLY TO MORE EXOTIC RACE FUELS !!!!!!
 
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Everyone should also be aware that different countries have different ways of determining octane rating. Make sure when taking octane advice online that your not comparing apples to oranges.
 
This is a good thread. I always use the 87 (regular) because that's what the owner's manual says. Mine is a 2007. I was on a ride this past weekend with three others. When we stopped to fuel up they all thought I was crazy. I know I saw in Cycle World a while back in one of the Q&A coulumns that running premium does nothing for us.
 
super googan said:
The above statement is simply untrue. You only need enough octane to prevent Knocking with full ignition advance (also called knock, detonation, spark knock, pinging, pre-ignition ect)
Higher octane fuels burn slower and without a doubt make less power ! If you have enough octane to run the ignition at optimum advance any more octane will reduce power.
Proven on the dyno. You can see a reduction of 2-5 horsepower on the dyno with excessive octane. Any octane above what an engine needs to prevent knock ( at full advance ) WILL REDUCE POWER !! IT BURNS SLOWER !

People believing higher octane makes more power is one of the longest lived most repeated myths !!!!!!!!

Compression ratio alone has little do do with an engines octane requirements. The size/shape of the combustion chamber, efficiency of the ignition system, the design of the cylinder-head and a hundred other variables determine each engines octane requirements.


THE ABOVE STATEMENTS APPLY TO FUEL AVAILABLE AT THE PUMP AND DO NOT NECESSARILY APPLY TO MORE EXOTIC RACE FUELS !!!!!!
Click to expand...

Correct. All of this.

Also with respect to higher octane fuel is not so much the myth(that myth certainly exists) that it has more power - --- but people buy it (when they shouldn't because it is not appropriate for their engines) simply because it costs more. Their perception is - if it costs more, it must be better. If it's better, it must have more power. ---Thinking: "Besides, the rich people buy it for their cars - so I will too. I can get just what the rich people get too. I can be just as elitist."

This is human nature - people always wanting things simply because they cost more or are expensive. It's in every aspect of life.
And it is in gasoline purchasing psychology.

The manufacturers do not perpetuate any of these myths or psychological drives. They tell you up front what the machine is designed to run with. But people always have there ways of discounting that and doing their own thing.

Where are the psychology dissertation of studies done on this behavior???
 
super googan said:
The above statement is simply untrue. You only need enough octane to prevent Knocking with full ignition advance (also called knock, detonation, spark knock, pinging, pre-ignition ect)
Higher octane fuels burn slower and without a doubt make less power ! If you have enough octane to run the ignition at optimum advance any more octane will reduce power.
Proven on the dyno. You can see a reduction of 2-5 horsepower on the dyno with excessive octane. Any octane above what an engine needs to prevent knock ( at full advance ) WILL REDUCE POWER !! IT BURNS SLOWER !

People believing higher octane makes more power is one of the longest lived most repeated myths !!!!!!!!

Compression ratio alone has little do do with an engines octane requirements. The size/shape of the combustion chamber, efficiency of the ignition system, the design of the cylinder-head and a hundred other variables determine each engines octane requirements.


THE ABOVE STATEMENTS APPLY TO FUEL AVAILABLE AT THE PUMP AND DO NOT NECESSARILY APPLY TO MORE EXOTIC RACE FUELS !!!!!!
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Super Googan, I quoted what was written and I know how my bike runs on our 98 octane. I use it because I believe I'm maximizing combustion and keeping my engine clean. Ok. Did a run today of 325 Km's (200 miles) on my usual fuel and as usual ran perfect to redline. However.....I have read your info on lower octanes - so next long ride I'll fill up with 91 octane and see if I can perceive a difference. My manual states 91 or higher so that's my guideline. :stirpot:
 
lindy said:
Correct. All of this.

Also with respect to higher octane fuel is not so much the myth(that myth certainly exists) that it has more power - --- but people buy it (when they shouldn't because it is not appropriate for their engines) simply because it costs more. Their perception is - if it costs more, it must be better. If it's better, it must have more power. ---Thinking: "Besides, the rich people buy it for their cars - so I will too. I can get just what the rich people get too. I can be just as elitist."

This is human nature - people always wanting things simply because they cost more or are expensive. It's in every aspect of life.
And it is in gasoline purchasing psychology.

The manufacturers do not perpetuate any of these myths or psychological drives. They tell you up front what the machine is designed to run with. But people always have there ways of discounting that and doing their own thing.

Where are the psychology dissertation of studies done on this behavior???
Click to expand...

Lindy, I suppose there are people out there as you describe. One would have to have shit for brains to think that way. But.....at the moment I'll still run 98 octane until I do more local research into what the best fuel for my FZ is. Meaning, I will speak to mechanics and people involved in bike racing and engine rebuilding and dyno work. I do not run premium fuel for the reasons you mentioned in your post. The engine cleaning factor is one of the most important and I believe my bike runs great on it. Next time , I will try some 91 octane (87 does not exist in Oz) and see if it runs as well on my current favorite 325 km run (200 miles) which I did today. Not missed a beat on over 11000 km's on premium. Cheers.
 
OK so now on my 4th tank of gas using 87 octane (regular with 10% ethanol) and bike is running fine.
No difference that I can tell in performance and actually a bit although very little better mileage. I can admit that I was wasting my cash running premium for all these years and reason for running like crap before must have been crap gas.
 
Lonewolf said:
Interesting posts. I've always run 98 octane and my 09 N model runs perfect. The manual supplied states 91 octane or higher - premium if there is any "pinging". Here in Australia, we have 91, 95 and 98 octane. Never heard of 87.
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Fuel in the US uses a different rating (AKI) than fuel outside (most) of the US... 87 AKI here is 91-92 RON outside of here. US 93 AKI is 98 RON outside of here. Same fuel, different standards of measurement. ;)
 
Rappo said:
I remember someone ran thier gen 1 FZ1 on a dyno a few years ago and posted better numbers with the 87 oct vs 91 ?
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As stated before… “premium” fuel (91 octane ) is harder to ignite than 87. The higher the octane #, the less “energy” is contained in identical amounts of fuel (87 vs 91.) If a specific engine can run its max-performance fuel/timing /compression setup on 87 octane – you will LOSE both performance and efficiency running higher octane.

The only real reason to move to a higher octane would be to prevent pre-ignition/pinging. The other benefit (if needed) is that the product used to increase octane, like Chevron’s “Techron”, also doubles as a deposit cleaner…
 
OK, I'll bite and chip in. My USA 2007 FZ1 manuel states;

"Your Yamaha engine has been designed to use regular unleaded gasoline with a pump octane number [(R+M)/2] of 86 or higher, or a research octane number of 91 or higher. If knocking or (pinging) occurs, use a gasoline of a different brad or premium uleaded fuel. Use of unleaded fuel will extend spark plug life and reduce maitenance cost"
Gasohol
There are two types of gasohol:gasoline containing ethanol and that containting methanol. Gasohol containing ethanl can be used if the ethanol content does not exceed 10%/ Gasohol containging methanol is not recomended by Yamaha because it can cause damage to the fuel system or vehicle performance problems"

I am not sure what "research octane" is, but it seems that USA 89 is fine for my bike.
 
bonesfz1 said:
OK, I'll bite and chip in. My USA 2007 FZ1 manuel states;

"Your Yamaha engine has been designed to use regular unleaded gasoline with a pump octane number [(R+M)/2] of 86 or higher, or a research octane number of 91 or higher. If knocking or (pinging) occurs, use a gasoline of a different brad or premium uleaded fuel. Use of unleaded fuel will extend spark plug life and reduce maitenance cost"
Gasohol
There are two types of gasohol:gasoline containing ethanol and that containting methanol. Gasohol containing ethanl can be used if the ethanol content does not exceed 10%/ Gasohol containging methanol is not recomended by Yamaha because it can cause damage to the fuel system or vehicle performance problems"

I am not sure what "research octane" is, but it seems that USA 89 is fine for my bike.
Click to expand...


Yep, its fine. And unneccessary.
 
I've been using premium which is 91 in texas i think. So you guys said 87 would run better? I disnt know you can use 87 whih is regular and 89 is regular plus. So what should i use for my 2007 gen 2?
 
Yup I had been running 91 octane for 30,000 miles in mine and 1,000 miles ago switched to 87 and it runs fine even gets a bit better mileage
 
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