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Got that itch again...
- Thread starter Norm
- Start date
snuffcityrider
Well-Known Member
Take a look at the Tenere while your shopping around, I like mine alot. It's a great do most anything bike.
- Thread starter
- #63
Norm
Wizard
There's one in my garage ready to borrow for as long as you like
Thanks Dustin. When I come up to you I will!
- Thread starter
- #64
Norm
Wizard
You're the first one I know who has one. Would you mind very much writing us up a review of your experience with it. It sounds very intriguing.
- Thread starter
- #65
Norm
Wizard
Wow Eric, that SV is beautiful!
- Thread starter
- #66
Norm
Wizard
The saga continues. I went to a different dealership yesterday. This one was quite a ways from me. I don't want to name the dealership, the owner, or give any other identifying information. Intrigued? It's not what you think. The dealership was very special and one man in particular, the sales guy, touched my soul. The reason I can't name the dealership is because the owner gave me personal health information which I will pass along to you, kind readers, as it represents some of the very tough decisions doctors and the people they treat face every day.
Let me start by saying that I went to the dealership to "confirm" in my mind that the GW is not the right bike for me at this time. To help solidify this Jedi mind trick I took the C14 and rode it to my limits, not its of course since I possess neither the skill nor the guts to do that. I started by entering a fairly long sweeper of an entrance ramp onto the Florida Turnpike. I did my best impersonation of Troy Bayliss by scraping the peg feelers, and in mid-sweep, waved to a kindly 70 something guy coming off the ramp on what else, a GW, doing 1/3 my speed. The Jedi mind trick was working well. Only old geezers ride GW's and they can't enter this ramp at 80 MPH like me and my C14. And even if they could, which they can't (I told myself) they would never take a hand off the ponderous beast at such speed and lean angle as I was doing.
Once on the Turnpike the speed limit, despite the advertised number of 70, was clearly "whatever you think you can get away with," judging by the traffic flow. Last week I bought a new Garmin Nuvi because my old one, 4-5 years old, was on the fritz. I didn't feel like paying for the waterproof Zumo so I bought a generic Nuvi (they must have 10,000 models of them now), based on the Ram Mount sites cradles that were made to fit the particular model. Sears happened to sell a Nuvi 1450T I believe, Ram Mount made a cradle for the 1450T and the two were conjoined after the obligatory wait for the Mount to arrive. Sears, of course, was just around the corner.
The new model has several upgrades. If there is one word that defines my generation is it "upgrade." It is really just another Jedi mind trick to make you keep buying the same damn thing over and over again even though you have a perfectly functioning unit already.
One of the new features posts the speed limit of the road you are on in white letters, in case you're too lazy to look at the signs on the road and the coup d'etat is that right next to that number it posts your present speed in white...but only if you are doing the speed limit or below. The Garmin graciously tries to help your wallet and keep unwanted attention from the local law enforcement at bay by posting your speed in red once you exceed the speed limit. Needless to say my number stayed red although a time or two I thought I actually saw the number turn into a flame. I touched the screen a time or two and confirmed that there was no heat emanating from the red number.
Despite Warp factor one the trip was longer than expected but my itunes kept me entertained, 1352 cc's of power chewed up and spit out miles, and the cars moved out of my way. They judged correctly that my closing speed meant I was either a LEO in pursuit or a nutcase trying to attach my hardware to the rear of their vehicle. I timed my arrival to be there one hour before closing. This would ensure I would not be entangled into a hard negotiating extravaganza, and any serious conversations would have to wait for another day.
I'm still of that generation that puts value on personal attention and attraction, bonds between humans and all that. I had spoken to "Mike" on the phone a few days prior so it was "Mike" that I sought out once on the showroom floor. I liked his manner on the phone, but in person he surpassed that which was pleasing to say the least. He remembered my call, my name, and where I came from. That impressed me. He took me on a tour of what was one of the most impressive showrooms I have seen for bikes, cars, or boats. As if that was not enough he told me how he came to be here, from Cincinnati, as virtually no one in Florida is actually from Florida, or so it seems in my short time here. Mike was a good egg. He treated everyone in this hulk of a dealership with respect and even a blind person could feel the warmth coming back to him from all of his co-workers. A spiritual soul and insightful. His 72 year old dad, still in Cincinnati, was his best friend and they spoke every day.
Just before the place closed Mike brought over the owner. I won't mention his first or last name as per the above. Mike and I had already talked about all manner of life but this was re-visited when the owner disclosed to me that he was being treated for Ulcerative Colitis, a condition that came under my umbrella as a sub-specialist and for which I had seen hundreds of patients. A bright man himself he recalled all the details of his disease as if his brain had scanned in all the data given to him from his doctors. He was most concerned about a lifetime of being on certain medications, in particular a medication known as 6-MP. After taking in all his information I informed him that this was not nearly a concern when compared to one of his pathology reports which reported a sample that contained "mild dysplasia."
John recalls my discourse on polyps to the South Dakota crew prepping my 2009 C14. This was an entirely different discussion as polyps and cancer of the colon in people without colitis is a completely different beast than cancer of the colon in people with colitis. The entire 7-10 year lead time of the adenoma carcinoma sequence goes out the window in chronic colitis patients and cancer can develop rapidly within flat dysplastic areas and this is the reason that most people with Ulcerative Colitis undergo yearly colonoscopy rather than every 3, 5, or ten years for most others. The owner first used the word "atypical" cells. I asked him "atypical or dysplasia?" He said: "wait, first the doctor said they were atypical but when I got the report it said dysplasia." He went on to tell me that once the doctor got that report he was doing colonoscopies every 3 months for a while.
I explained to him that the word atypia was a garbage term used by pathologists to describe cells that were not textbook normal but also did not show pre-malignant cells. Premalignant cells went through stages known as dysplasia and the pathologic literature had gone through great pains over a period of 10-20 years to define what constituted dysplasia, so as there could be no misunderstanding from one pathologist to another. The gastroenterology literature had determined that the finding of dysplasia warranted more frequent surveillance, so every 3 month colonoscopy after such a finding was not only warranted, it was the norm (not The Norm). But here was the problem. I pointed to the showroom floor, which was enormous in expanse. I said, pretend that you, me, and Mike had a shovel and over the next few hours we shoveled through different areas of the tile looking for radioactive material. Now pretend that the scientists evaluating these shoveled samples found one of them did indeed contain some radioactive material. Now pretend that when we went back to the showroom floor someone had already come in and restored the tiled floors to new. While we had put the samples in 10X10 feet bags to approximate where we got the samples from we never took the trouble to mark each one exactly where it came from, and since everything was tiled over we had no chance of finding, except by luck, the exact spot where the radioactive sample came from.
I told him that this was exactly the way we operated during colonoscopy, except on a smaller scale of course. We took several biopsies every 10 cm along the colon and put them all together in one bottle for the pathologist. Even doing this changed a 15 minute procedure into an hour or two procedure from the "normal" patient without colitis. It would be all but impossible to label each of the hundreds of samples we took individually and put them in their own container. It would be a monumental effort on both the part of the gastroenterologist and the pathologist. Not to sully this further, but no insurance in the world would compensate either of us for this Herculean effort, nor did the literature demand such a task. Even if we could do it, the fact that the colon would heal itself over within days would still make finding this exact same spot again all but impossible.
I told the owner that this was the reason when I got even one sample that came back as "dysplasia" I sent the patient and their slides to Boston. I called the doctor there and said when you send them back I want you to give both the patient and myself a very good reason why we shouldn't remove the colon right now, before this develops cancer under our own eyes. I recommended he do the same: to take his samples and go to a big university (there was one not far from him) and ask them that question. There is a surgery that will connect the small bowel to the anus so there is no longer a need for colostomy. If we remove the colon from a patient with colitis (who has a much higher risk of developing colon cancer in their lifetime than a normal person, even without a report of dysplasia) we can make sure they will not die of colon cancer. Ultimately it is not for the doctor to decide. The doctor must make the patient understand everything they do so as to make an informed decision on whether or not they want to keep their colon. For everyone, that decision will be different, but at least they will have made it knowing the true facts of what we call "surveillance" as well as its limitations.
An hour after the place had closed, all the lights were out and the doors were locked the three of us were onto discussing my tragic year and a half. A half hour after that we finally started talking about the Gold Wing. While the owner had decided to forward his pathology reports to my email and maybe make himself an appointment at that University I had decided that I was in complete disbelief that a Gold Wing could fall to either side and never once touch anything but its built in guards. Mike said he didn't believe it either till a Honda rep showed up and dropped a new GW first down on one side and then down on the other: Absolutely no damage. He likened it to the recent Cruise ship that hit rocks in Italy and sat, half-submerged, sideways in the water. Mike said he watched incredulously as the large bike remained at a 45 degree angle, the guards doing their job and saving every bit of steel, chrome, paint, peg, mirror, clutch, and brake handle from touching anything but air.
I suppose this story could go on for hours but here is my bottom line regarding the GW. I'll spare all but my most steadfast friends from our discussions on Jake and the Universe. I didn't like his 2008 GW with 10,000 miles. He made me a terrific deal but the chrome looked horrible from 4 years of inattention and sitting around and I assumed the internal workings of the engine might have suffered the same fate. I would have been happier with 25K miles and a nicer looking exterior. If a person sat around like this Gold Wing over the past four years they'd show signs disuse. Yes this is a machine but I think all of us on this board feel these machines come to life every time we start them up. They therefore have some human in them.
They had the same exact baby blue 2012 Navi/ABS bike in their showroom for a MSRP of $26,700. I figure the owner is into it for $20,000. I figure he can get no less than $8000 for my C14. If he charged me $12K, and sold the C14 the same day he and Mike would be making nothing on the deal. So I'll throw in the thousand for sales tax, a thousand for the C14 taking up space till it really sells, $500 for Mike and then another $2000 for all the things I know nothing about. If he offers me the new GW for my bike plus $16,500 OTD I think I'll take it. Anything over, well despite the "human bonds" and all that stuff, I can probably make that deal another time. My assumption is that this owner didn't get wealthy by being a really generous guy and his offer will be my bike plus $20K. It will then be easy to reject the GW. The C14 is a fabulous small and medium distance touring bike that can double as a sports bike. I wouldn't want to cross the country on it but I probably won't do that with the Wing either. Yet a blockbuster dealer on such a venerable machine as the Wing, with the FZ1 for tearing up the roads might work too.
Let me start by saying that I went to the dealership to "confirm" in my mind that the GW is not the right bike for me at this time. To help solidify this Jedi mind trick I took the C14 and rode it to my limits, not its of course since I possess neither the skill nor the guts to do that. I started by entering a fairly long sweeper of an entrance ramp onto the Florida Turnpike. I did my best impersonation of Troy Bayliss by scraping the peg feelers, and in mid-sweep, waved to a kindly 70 something guy coming off the ramp on what else, a GW, doing 1/3 my speed. The Jedi mind trick was working well. Only old geezers ride GW's and they can't enter this ramp at 80 MPH like me and my C14. And even if they could, which they can't (I told myself) they would never take a hand off the ponderous beast at such speed and lean angle as I was doing.
Once on the Turnpike the speed limit, despite the advertised number of 70, was clearly "whatever you think you can get away with," judging by the traffic flow. Last week I bought a new Garmin Nuvi because my old one, 4-5 years old, was on the fritz. I didn't feel like paying for the waterproof Zumo so I bought a generic Nuvi (they must have 10,000 models of them now), based on the Ram Mount sites cradles that were made to fit the particular model. Sears happened to sell a Nuvi 1450T I believe, Ram Mount made a cradle for the 1450T and the two were conjoined after the obligatory wait for the Mount to arrive. Sears, of course, was just around the corner.
The new model has several upgrades. If there is one word that defines my generation is it "upgrade." It is really just another Jedi mind trick to make you keep buying the same damn thing over and over again even though you have a perfectly functioning unit already.
One of the new features posts the speed limit of the road you are on in white letters, in case you're too lazy to look at the signs on the road and the coup d'etat is that right next to that number it posts your present speed in white...but only if you are doing the speed limit or below. The Garmin graciously tries to help your wallet and keep unwanted attention from the local law enforcement at bay by posting your speed in red once you exceed the speed limit. Needless to say my number stayed red although a time or two I thought I actually saw the number turn into a flame. I touched the screen a time or two and confirmed that there was no heat emanating from the red number.
Despite Warp factor one the trip was longer than expected but my itunes kept me entertained, 1352 cc's of power chewed up and spit out miles, and the cars moved out of my way. They judged correctly that my closing speed meant I was either a LEO in pursuit or a nutcase trying to attach my hardware to the rear of their vehicle. I timed my arrival to be there one hour before closing. This would ensure I would not be entangled into a hard negotiating extravaganza, and any serious conversations would have to wait for another day.
I'm still of that generation that puts value on personal attention and attraction, bonds between humans and all that. I had spoken to "Mike" on the phone a few days prior so it was "Mike" that I sought out once on the showroom floor. I liked his manner on the phone, but in person he surpassed that which was pleasing to say the least. He remembered my call, my name, and where I came from. That impressed me. He took me on a tour of what was one of the most impressive showrooms I have seen for bikes, cars, or boats. As if that was not enough he told me how he came to be here, from Cincinnati, as virtually no one in Florida is actually from Florida, or so it seems in my short time here. Mike was a good egg. He treated everyone in this hulk of a dealership with respect and even a blind person could feel the warmth coming back to him from all of his co-workers. A spiritual soul and insightful. His 72 year old dad, still in Cincinnati, was his best friend and they spoke every day.
Just before the place closed Mike brought over the owner. I won't mention his first or last name as per the above. Mike and I had already talked about all manner of life but this was re-visited when the owner disclosed to me that he was being treated for Ulcerative Colitis, a condition that came under my umbrella as a sub-specialist and for which I had seen hundreds of patients. A bright man himself he recalled all the details of his disease as if his brain had scanned in all the data given to him from his doctors. He was most concerned about a lifetime of being on certain medications, in particular a medication known as 6-MP. After taking in all his information I informed him that this was not nearly a concern when compared to one of his pathology reports which reported a sample that contained "mild dysplasia."
John recalls my discourse on polyps to the South Dakota crew prepping my 2009 C14. This was an entirely different discussion as polyps and cancer of the colon in people without colitis is a completely different beast than cancer of the colon in people with colitis. The entire 7-10 year lead time of the adenoma carcinoma sequence goes out the window in chronic colitis patients and cancer can develop rapidly within flat dysplastic areas and this is the reason that most people with Ulcerative Colitis undergo yearly colonoscopy rather than every 3, 5, or ten years for most others. The owner first used the word "atypical" cells. I asked him "atypical or dysplasia?" He said: "wait, first the doctor said they were atypical but when I got the report it said dysplasia." He went on to tell me that once the doctor got that report he was doing colonoscopies every 3 months for a while.
I explained to him that the word atypia was a garbage term used by pathologists to describe cells that were not textbook normal but also did not show pre-malignant cells. Premalignant cells went through stages known as dysplasia and the pathologic literature had gone through great pains over a period of 10-20 years to define what constituted dysplasia, so as there could be no misunderstanding from one pathologist to another. The gastroenterology literature had determined that the finding of dysplasia warranted more frequent surveillance, so every 3 month colonoscopy after such a finding was not only warranted, it was the norm (not The Norm). But here was the problem. I pointed to the showroom floor, which was enormous in expanse. I said, pretend that you, me, and Mike had a shovel and over the next few hours we shoveled through different areas of the tile looking for radioactive material. Now pretend that the scientists evaluating these shoveled samples found one of them did indeed contain some radioactive material. Now pretend that when we went back to the showroom floor someone had already come in and restored the tiled floors to new. While we had put the samples in 10X10 feet bags to approximate where we got the samples from we never took the trouble to mark each one exactly where it came from, and since everything was tiled over we had no chance of finding, except by luck, the exact spot where the radioactive sample came from.
I told him that this was exactly the way we operated during colonoscopy, except on a smaller scale of course. We took several biopsies every 10 cm along the colon and put them all together in one bottle for the pathologist. Even doing this changed a 15 minute procedure into an hour or two procedure from the "normal" patient without colitis. It would be all but impossible to label each of the hundreds of samples we took individually and put them in their own container. It would be a monumental effort on both the part of the gastroenterologist and the pathologist. Not to sully this further, but no insurance in the world would compensate either of us for this Herculean effort, nor did the literature demand such a task. Even if we could do it, the fact that the colon would heal itself over within days would still make finding this exact same spot again all but impossible.
I told the owner that this was the reason when I got even one sample that came back as "dysplasia" I sent the patient and their slides to Boston. I called the doctor there and said when you send them back I want you to give both the patient and myself a very good reason why we shouldn't remove the colon right now, before this develops cancer under our own eyes. I recommended he do the same: to take his samples and go to a big university (there was one not far from him) and ask them that question. There is a surgery that will connect the small bowel to the anus so there is no longer a need for colostomy. If we remove the colon from a patient with colitis (who has a much higher risk of developing colon cancer in their lifetime than a normal person, even without a report of dysplasia) we can make sure they will not die of colon cancer. Ultimately it is not for the doctor to decide. The doctor must make the patient understand everything they do so as to make an informed decision on whether or not they want to keep their colon. For everyone, that decision will be different, but at least they will have made it knowing the true facts of what we call "surveillance" as well as its limitations.
An hour after the place had closed, all the lights were out and the doors were locked the three of us were onto discussing my tragic year and a half. A half hour after that we finally started talking about the Gold Wing. While the owner had decided to forward his pathology reports to my email and maybe make himself an appointment at that University I had decided that I was in complete disbelief that a Gold Wing could fall to either side and never once touch anything but its built in guards. Mike said he didn't believe it either till a Honda rep showed up and dropped a new GW first down on one side and then down on the other: Absolutely no damage. He likened it to the recent Cruise ship that hit rocks in Italy and sat, half-submerged, sideways in the water. Mike said he watched incredulously as the large bike remained at a 45 degree angle, the guards doing their job and saving every bit of steel, chrome, paint, peg, mirror, clutch, and brake handle from touching anything but air.
I suppose this story could go on for hours but here is my bottom line regarding the GW. I'll spare all but my most steadfast friends from our discussions on Jake and the Universe. I didn't like his 2008 GW with 10,000 miles. He made me a terrific deal but the chrome looked horrible from 4 years of inattention and sitting around and I assumed the internal workings of the engine might have suffered the same fate. I would have been happier with 25K miles and a nicer looking exterior. If a person sat around like this Gold Wing over the past four years they'd show signs disuse. Yes this is a machine but I think all of us on this board feel these machines come to life every time we start them up. They therefore have some human in them.
They had the same exact baby blue 2012 Navi/ABS bike in their showroom for a MSRP of $26,700. I figure the owner is into it for $20,000. I figure he can get no less than $8000 for my C14. If he charged me $12K, and sold the C14 the same day he and Mike would be making nothing on the deal. So I'll throw in the thousand for sales tax, a thousand for the C14 taking up space till it really sells, $500 for Mike and then another $2000 for all the things I know nothing about. If he offers me the new GW for my bike plus $16,500 OTD I think I'll take it. Anything over, well despite the "human bonds" and all that stuff, I can probably make that deal another time. My assumption is that this owner didn't get wealthy by being a really generous guy and his offer will be my bike plus $20K. It will then be easy to reject the GW. The C14 is a fabulous small and medium distance touring bike that can double as a sports bike. I wouldn't want to cross the country on it but I probably won't do that with the Wing either. Yet a blockbuster dealer on such a venerable machine as the Wing, with the FZ1 for tearing up the roads might work too.
- Admin
- #67
FZ1inTX
Adminstrator
Norm, the way you bond with people is rather special. You must have been a very unique Doctor... I'm thinking of Patch Adams here, where beside manners and the mental welfare of a patient is just as important, maybe even more so, than the actual physical ailment needing treatment. You never cease to amaze me! There will come a time when this guy will come to you and thank you for literally saving his life, or at least extending it many more years than he'd had when only half of the information was provided to him. You're quite an inspiration, you know this right?
Regarding the bike... the new ones are utterly amazing rides and yes, they are expensive for a reason. They do not need modding because they are the all-inclusive package. Who knows!?!? You get a GW and you just may find yourself out on longer trips and more often. Still trying to figure out how Yogi will stay in the pillion seat though...
Now, I looked up your C14 on Nadaguides and see that the LOW retail is $9,700 and the AVERAGE retail is $12,700. Given the condition of your bike, the meticulous care and the spotless maintenance record, if it was used on his showroom floor, he will be asking very close to the $12.7k price and that is no matter what he gives you in trade for this machine. I would take no less than $9500 in trade for the C14. Even if he discounts it to $11,500 on the floor, after servicing it, he's still walking with a $1500+ profit. The killer deal would be (in my eyes) your C14 and $15k OTD. I know it's a difference of $1500 in price but.... That's $1500 toward Bike #3 in the stable?!?
I know you well enough that once the thought is put there, you'll keep scratching until it stops itching so go in with something a bit less than you think is fair and let them accept or counter... then scratch for the last time as you sign and smoothly, silently, stealthily motor away on 1832cc of pure luxury.
Regarding the bike... the new ones are utterly amazing rides and yes, they are expensive for a reason. They do not need modding because they are the all-inclusive package. Who knows!?!? You get a GW and you just may find yourself out on longer trips and more often. Still trying to figure out how Yogi will stay in the pillion seat though...
Now, I looked up your C14 on Nadaguides and see that the LOW retail is $9,700 and the AVERAGE retail is $12,700. Given the condition of your bike, the meticulous care and the spotless maintenance record, if it was used on his showroom floor, he will be asking very close to the $12.7k price and that is no matter what he gives you in trade for this machine. I would take no less than $9500 in trade for the C14. Even if he discounts it to $11,500 on the floor, after servicing it, he's still walking with a $1500+ profit. The killer deal would be (in my eyes) your C14 and $15k OTD. I know it's a difference of $1500 in price but.... That's $1500 toward Bike #3 in the stable?!? I know you well enough that once the thought is put there, you'll keep scratching until it stops itching so go in with something a bit less than you think is fair and let them accept or counter... then scratch for the last time as you sign and smoothly, silently, stealthily motor away on 1832cc of pure luxury.
Dustin
Moderator
I hope I can learn to be half as perceptive, caring and empathetic as Norm in my lifetime
- Thread starter
- #69
Norm
Wizard
Thank you my friend. BTW, see you in 48 hours. Yes $15K is what I first came up with. Then I thought some more and figured that would be almost a ridiculously good price.
Alright $15K it is! Do I hear any further offers?
Dustin, we posted at the same time so I must amend the above to "Thank you both my friends!"
Alright $15K it is! Do I hear any further offers?
Dustin, we posted at the same time so I must amend the above to "Thank you both my friends!"
- Thread starter
- #70
Norm
Wizard
Well, I think the issue is settles for now. The best OTD price he can come up with is $18,400 plus my Concours. It's fair, no doubt, but not what I would call a blockbuster deal. I told him I'd get back to him either way in about a week. It'll give Eric and I some time to talk it over during his visit.
- Admin
- #71
FZ1inTX
Adminstrator
World Class!
Today Norm took me to this dealer with the GW. I have to tell you that this is a top notch dealership. An amazing facility with a no-pressure staff that is nothing short of humble and helpful. Even the bathroom was immaculate! The GW... the new one is quite a work of art. The used one, well, I'm not so trusting of this and I think Norm is convinced that this isn't a bike he'd want to have, especially if he's giving up a perfectly good Connie. I could see the gears whirring in Norm's head so over lunch (an authentic Cuban sandwich) I helped him weigh the pros and cons of taking the deal or not. I'll let Norm speak to this and the end result. All's I will say is that the used GW is definitely off the table.
So, while there and wandering the VAST expanse of the place, I round the corner and lay eyes on my dream bike. I'm totally floored with the sight of this. All the other bikes in the place suddenly are worthless, non-existent and do not matter. The comedy of this was how clearly evident the owner is not willing the sell this bike. You be the judge:
Today Norm took me to this dealer with the GW. I have to tell you that this is a top notch dealership. An amazing facility with a no-pressure staff that is nothing short of humble and helpful. Even the bathroom was immaculate! The GW... the new one is quite a work of art. The used one, well, I'm not so trusting of this and I think Norm is convinced that this isn't a bike he'd want to have, especially if he's giving up a perfectly good Connie. I could see the gears whirring in Norm's head so over lunch (an authentic Cuban sandwich) I helped him weigh the pros and cons of taking the deal or not. I'll let Norm speak to this and the end result. All's I will say is that the used GW is definitely off the table.
So, while there and wandering the VAST expanse of the place, I round the corner and lay eyes on my dream bike. I'm totally floored with the sight of this. All the other bikes in the place suddenly are worthless, non-existent and do not matter. The comedy of this was how clearly evident the owner is not willing the sell this bike. You be the judge:
NJFZ1
Moderator
Nice looking RZ350! I wouldn't mind owning it 
So how many miles were on it?
So how many miles were on it?