2011 Gentlemen Sportbike Shootout

[Jamieb]

Agreed. And, I do wish it had the low end torque present in the Kawa and Suzi.

I always want a bike, a car, a horse...whatever, to have low end torque. That's where we all spend most of our time.
That said, I find the low end torque in the FZ1 to be adequate, but not thrilling.

I have owned some real torque monsters in my day and I have to say I am continually dissappointed in the torque curve of the FZ. I am pretty impressed with the difference the Graves Velocity Stacks made but still flat compared to other bikes I have had.

 

[eurban]

I have owned some real torque monsters in my day and I have to say I am continually dissappointed in the torque curve of the FZ. I am pretty impressed with the difference the Graves Velocity Stacks made but still flat compared to other bikes I have had.

Sir, based on your signature, you have all the bases covered except the full Yosh system. What are you waiting for?? It will help mid range power level noticeably.

 

[amevl]

not even a ton of mods just slap on the 16t and see how much harder she pulls midrange compared to the others.

 

[Jamieb]

Sir, based on your signature, you have all the bases covered except the full Yosh system. What are you waiting for?? It will help mid range power level noticeably.

If you look at the torque curve on dyno sheets that people have posted, with aftermarket head pipes, it is still pretty lacking as compared to other bikes. Don't get me wrong, this bike makes a great torque # but it is way to high up in the powerband for my liking. I hate having to constantly spin the hell out it to keep it in the powerband. I am a bit of a low RPM torque snob having owned a few v-twin sport bikes and some large(1200+) CC sport bikes that never see above 10k RPM.
Don't misunderstand what I am saying, I Love the FZ, it just has a few things I don't like:fuel range, gearing, the way it makes power. I have to work alot harder at going fast than I have on previous bikes: shifting, shifting, shifting. JMO

 

[eurban]

If you look at the torque curve on dyno sheets that people have posted, with aftermarket head pipes, it is still pretty lacking as compared to other bikes. Don't get me wrong, this bike makes a great torque # but it is way to high up in the powerband for my liking. I hate having to constantly spin the hell out it to keep it in the powerband. I am a bit of a low RPM torque snob having owned a few v-twin sport bikes and some large(1200+) CC sport bikes that never see above 10k RPM.
Don't misunderstand what I am saying, I Love the FZ, it just has a few things I don't like:fuel range, gearing, the way it makes power. I have to work alot harder at going fast than I have on previous bikes: shifting, shifting, shifting. JMO

Without the "benefits" of some technological trickery like variable valve timing, variable intake parameters, or perhaps turbo/super charging you aren't going to be making 150 rwhp (or even significantly more like the super bikes) on a 1000cc bike and also have a "torque monster" low end. Its the price you pay for the monster on top. The "full Ivan" package does a excellent job maximizing the area under the curve in sub 7k range but this is still a high reving engine by nature.
Don't forget that there are abundant trade offs that those torque monster twins make as well.
Honestly, given your "complaints" and the budget you have already put into mods, you really should consider the full Yosh system. One of its design parameters was to give a nice midrange boost to the powerband. Sell the slip on and finish the job!

 

[DMc]

... Don't get me wrong, this bike makes a great torque # but it is way to high up in the powerband for my liking. I hate having to constantly spin the hell out it to keep it in the powerband...

I read this often on the FZ1 forums, and no disrespect to this poster, but this bike has been around a long time so the power delivery of its in-line 4 power plant is well known. If it was not the type of power that you were looking for, why buy it? It is what it is.
I chose the FZ1 because of this dual personality, not in spite of it. I absolutely love the smooth and modest power available in the lower half of the rpm range. It makes for stress-free control not only at slow speed, but on the gravel, ice or sand that is commonly found on roads in my area. The upper half of the rpm range will catapult you to felony speed (so I have heard :innocent0002: ) in the blink of an eye and happily hold you there, effortlessly for as long as you want.
The FZ1 is a very capable bike with distinct power and handling characteristics. These characteristics can be improved upon with the well known mods. But the basic character of the bike will still be the same.
There are many great and purpose-built bikes out there. Choose the one that does what you want and you will be happy. It is not the bike's fault if it does what it is suppose to do, just not what you want it to do.

Dave

 

[3B43]

After being out of M/C for 25 yrs, I jumped back in and bought a new '08, for a great price, at the end of '09. I love the bike: it does everything I want from a M/C, plus its gorgeous and sexy, but have 3 issues w/it:

1) Shock
2) Seat
3) Throttle 'snatch'

The Ohlin cured the shock issue and a Russell seat will cure 'numb-butt' on a long trip (read 300+ miles/day for a week or so!) I haven't cured the 'snatch' yet, but it appears, by reading all the posts on this, and other FZ sites, a mod or 3 will cure that issue. With all the mods, it looks like I can see an honest 150 hp at the rear wheel, BUT . . . . .

I'm 54 and I'm sure there are many out there in my age group that would pay for the following:

A R1 (or GSXR/ZX10R/etc) with a 'real world' ridding position! Wouldn't you guys like a R1 w/the FZ ridding position? Due to several injuries, ridding a sportbike is rather difficult, but I still want all the performance that comes w/a R1/ZX-10R motorcycle! It PO's me that 'they' make a bike like the FZ1, that is cheaper then the R1, but that I have to spend $2-3K on to 'make it right'. By the time I spend the $$$ to 'fix' the FZ, I could have bought a R1!

Any of you guys feel this way?

I've ridden my buddy's Concourse . . . hell'eva bike, but I really have no interest in something that big/heavy. After spending 100 miles on it, on a twisty road (Hwy 299 from Eureka to Redding), I was happy to slip the FZ between my legs!

 

[Oldschool]

After being out of M/C for 25 yrs, I jumped back in and bought a new '08, for a great price, at the end of '09. I love the bike: it does everything I want from a M/C, plus its gorgeous and sexy, but have 3 issues w/it:

1) Shock
2) Seat
3) Throttle 'snatch'

The Ohlin cured the shock issue and a Russell seat will cure 'numb-butt' on a long trip (read 300+ miles/day for a week or so!) I haven't cured the 'snatch' yet, but it appears, by reading all the posts on this, and other FZ sites, a mod or 3 will cure that issue. With all the mods, it looks like I can see an honest 150 hp at the rear wheel, BUT . . . . .

I'm 54 and I'm sure there are many out there in my age group that would pay for the following:

A R1 (or GSXR/ZX10R/etc) with a 'real world' ridding position! Wouldn't you guys like a R1 w/the FZ ridding position? Due to several injuries, ridding a sportbike is rather difficult, but I still want all the performance that comes w/a R1/ZX-10R motorcycle! It PO's me that 'they' make a bike like the FZ1, that is cheaper then the R1, but that I have to spend $2-3K on to 'make it right'. By the time I spend the $$$ to 'fix' the FZ, I could have bought a R1!

Any of you guys feel this way?

I've ridden my buddy's Concourse . . . hell'eva bike, but I really have no interest in something that big/heavy. After spending 100 miles on it, on a twisty road (Hwy 299 from Eureka to Redding), I was happy to slip the FZ between my legs!

Maybe I'm Crazy, I'm 47 and I just can't stand the R1 ergo's anymore. I was a "crotch rocket" guy for many years. Yes the R1 handles beautifully, BUT it is even more top end biased. The R1 would still need that same Ohlins and a PC and a pipe to make it even better (lets not kid ourselves). We all want that few extra bits of performance, so we would spend 2 - 3 $K on it after paying more to begin with. The FZ 1 was not a settle for bike for me. It was what I wanted to begin with BECAUSE of it's ergo's. Did I spend money making it better (lighter stronger faster - Q six million dollar man music), of course.
I think of the FZ as a sleeper that would embarass a lot of kids on their R1's etc. I work on making improvements to the rider every time I ride. When I get so good that the bike can no longer cope with my awesome skills then I will think about upgrading. By then I will have to buy upgrades to my body first....hhmm maybe better reflexes, new eyes. Maybe by then they will be available (muscles by Ohlins, Eyes by Nikon, Oh Yeah!)

A side note: I would put my FZ up against that Kawi and Suzuki any day and suspect that it would make those reviewers change their tune right quick. Of course it wouldn't be a fair fight now would it.

http://www.998cc.org/forum/bar/6942-hey-you-cant-park-there.html#post24134

 

[eurban]

After being out of M/C for 25 yrs, I jumped back in and bought a new '08, for a great price, at the end of '09. I love the bike: it does everything I want from a M/C, plus its gorgeous and sexy, but have 3 issues w/it:

1) Shock
2) Seat
3) Throttle 'snatch'

The Ohlin cured the shock issue and a Russell seat will cure 'numb-butt' on a long trip (read 300+ miles/day for a week or so!) I haven't cured the 'snatch' yet, but it appears, by reading all the posts on this, and other FZ sites, a mod or 3 will cure that issue. With all the mods, it looks like I can see an honest 150 hp at the rear wheel, BUT . . . . .

I'm 54 and I'm sure there are many out there in my age group that would pay for the following:

A R1 (or GSXR/ZX10R/etc) with a 'real world' ridding position! Wouldn't you guys like a R1 w/the FZ ridding position? Due to several injuries, ridding a sportbike is rather difficult, but I still want all the performance that comes w/a R1/ZX-10R motorcycle! It PO's me that 'they' make a bike like the FZ1, that is cheaper then the R1, but that I have to spend $2-3K on to 'make it right'. By the time I spend the $$$ to 'fix' the FZ, I could have bought a R1!

Any of you guys feel this way?

I've ridden my buddy's Concourse . . . hell'eva bike, but I really have no interest in something that big/heavy. After spending 100 miles on it, on a twisty road (Hwy 299 from Eureka to Redding), I was happy to slip the FZ between my legs!

You will need to spend a good chunk of change to completely alter the ergos of the R1 to match The FZ. For better and for worse it will have the high revving high strung character of a sport bike. It will be light weight and handle well but poorly suited to two up duties. This may be what you want. . . .
The GenII has been around since 06 and has only seen minor changes since. Personally I can't understand why anyone would purchase a new one, even at reduced rates. Used bikes start at less the $4k and with a decent budget for mods can be made into an amazing all arounder. The engine will make similar top end power to an unmodified R1 but with a fuller bottom end.
Which do you want is the question?

 

[3B43]

Don't get me wrong guys, I LOVE the FZ, but don't quite understand some of the 'cheap' stuff that is on it. I guess nothing is 'perfect' . . . and no, the only other bike I would consider buying is a Ducati MS . . . and at the moment, its out of my price range!

 

[BDazzler]

Yamaha now has a few great reasons to make the Gen III with the cross-plane crank! (I hope they add some factory removable bags too). I think the gearing and midrange (with little given up in the top end) are big advantages for the Kawi. I'm sure Yamaha will have a response.

Honestly, I think I'd be about as happy with either the FZ1 or Ninja 1000. I have an FZ1, and there is not any real reason to get rid of it and replace it with anything else. If I didn't have a bike and I was going to buy new, I'd give the Ninja 1000 a very long look. I might still end up with the FZ1, but I don't know. Luckily for me, the used FZ1 market is awesome, and I was able to pick up my '07 with less than 1600 miles for half a new one, so it's still a no regret for me. I don't even have to think about it. Still, just because you're on a diet, doesn't mean you can't look at the menu! (I'd have about 20 bikes in my garage if I could just what I wanted to be since HS, independently wealthy! I guess my current bike prevents that.) :retard:

 

[3B43]

'IF' I didn't have a bike and was looking to buy, the FZ would be at the top ofthe list, w/the new Kawa. I like the looks of the Kawa and the adjustable windscreen + hard bags is a VERY nice touch, but not enough to sell my '08 and buy it. Like I posted . . . I LOVE the Ducati MS, but at $20,000 its slightly more $$$ then an FZ or Kawa!

 

[Jamieb]

Without the "benefits" of some technological trickery like variable valve timing, variable intake parameters, or perhaps turbo/super charging you aren't going to be making 150 rwhp (or even significantly more like the super bikes) on a 1000cc bike and also have a "torque monster" low end. Its the price you pay for the monster on top. The "full Ivan" package does a excellent job maximizing the area under the curve in sub 7k range but this is still a high reving engine by nature.
Don't forget that there are abundant trade offs that those torque monster twins make as well.
Honestly, given your "complaints" and the budget you have already put into mods, you really should consider the full Yosh system. One of its design parameters was to give a nice midrange boost to the powerband. Sell the slip on and finish the job!

Not exactly true, I owned a 2000 big bore Kawasaki ZX-9 that made 163 rwhp and had a rip roaring torque curve from way down low. All of this was accomplished using the stock camshafts and carburetors with no "technological Trickery" the downfall of the torque curve of the FZ is laid at the feet of the 20 valve cylinder head. From my experience working on cylinder head flow you know that big flow numbers are great for big HP in the upper rpm. Being that HP is just a calculation of torque X rpm, if you have monster flow all you need is monster rpm to realize that potential. When you include the constraints of building a street motorcycle that is cost prohibitive to be able to make turn 15,000 RPM what you end up with is a very narrow powerband. Don't misunderstand me and think I don't like this bike (I love it) I just want to have my cake and eat it too!!!

 

[Dustin]

Those big bore ZX9 kits are usually above 1000cc right? Those are some big power numbers

I guess that was the era Kawasaki was putting bikes out with more power than everyone else

 

[Jamieb]

Those big bore ZX9 kits are usually above 1000cc right? Those are some big power numbers

I guess that was the era Kawasaki was putting bikes out with more power than everyone else

the big bore ZX9 kit took the motor to 998cc from 899. I bought that particular bike from Rob Muzzy himself at the Pro Stars Drag race in Gainesville, FL. Man that was a great bike and considering it was 10 yrs ago it is even more impressive. It would power wheelie shifting into third gear at 110mph with my 250lbs on it.

 

[Dustin]

Wow, a Rob Muzzy-built ZX9! That thing must have been impressive