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FZ1 - ride character?

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BigDave2040

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This post is going to be a little bit vague, but bear with me!

I've been on the look for "the perfect bike" for a few years now, and I feel like I'm getting closer, but not quite there yet! My first was a 2007 R6, which I enjoyed a lot but ended up trading in for a 2008 CBR1000RR. That was pretty unnecessarily fast, and after a few tickets I decided that wasn't really the right thing for me. Since I generally liked the "feel" of the R6 more than the CBR, I decided to go back to Yamaha and pick up a 2012 FZ6R, thinking that it would be a pretty great bike for just getting around town, and it is! Smooth ride, feels very maneuverable, no major complaints. However... it's really lacking in power sometimes, especially when I've got a passenger or doing some highway riding (or both).

So... I saw what I considered to be a great deal on a 2010 VFR1200F and jumped on it. After a couple of weeks, I'm pretty disappointed with it. It's got a ton of power for smooth highway riding, and it definitely looks killer, but it just doesn't feel great at all at lower speeds around town (i.e. 30-40 mph) which is most of the riding I do. It's got a lot of vibration, and kind of rumbles like it's a rocket ship about to take off when cruising at lower speeds. It also makes a fan noise not totally unlike a starship entering warp speed once it gets around 3,000 RPM. My clutch hand ends up just being kind of tired from having to cruise with a disengaged clutch all the time, or deal with the noise and vibration and jumpiness from cruising a speed the engine clearly doesn't want to be going at.

Does this problem make sense? I don't know how best to describe it, but it's a little similar to my old CBR in that it just doesn't feel very pleasant to ride around at the speeds I actually travel at in civilized society.

I'd like something like my FZ6R, that has a smooth and generally painless ride at low speeds and doesn't necessarily make me feel like I *need* to be going faster to enjoy my bike, but also has enough power that I don't feel crippled on the highway and can have a little fun when I want to. I do not need to feel like I'm strapped to a jet engine *all the time*.

It sucks that test rides are so uncommon in the world of motorcycling and that I have to ask on a forum instead of being able to try them out for myself, but... Do you all think that the FZ8 or FZ1 would give me what I'm looking for, in terms of a smooth ride with the *option* of more power? I'm not huge into wheelies or riding too hard, but I'd like to at least break 100hp. Again, I've been pretty happy with my two Yamahas and generally not as happy with my Hondas. I've also heard good things about the Ninja 1000.

Again, sorry that I'm being kind of vague, but I feel like in the absence of an environment where I can try out a few different kinds of bikes, I don't have a lot of options but to try to explain my problem and hope somebody can relate!
 
i traded up from an fz6r to an FZ1 and id say the bikes do feel quite similar although the FZ1 is definitely noticably heavier.... and more powerful. I do mostly commuter riding with some highway stints and longer weekend rides and i have never felt like the FZ1 was lacking. Ive done a track day in it and was definitely limited by my ability and not the bike.... around town its nice and maneuverable, although you will hear people complain about the engine feeling weak at lower RPMs.... not a huge issue if ur riding casually and apparently very easily fixed with a sprocket change and or other mods (intake exhaust PCV etc)... my dad had a ninja 1000 and offered it to me instead of the FZ1.... that thing is a monster for sure but ergonomically it wasnt as comfortable or as practical as the FZ1... hope this helps a bit.
 
One man's perfect bike may be another man's trash. It would be better to try to address certain points of your post.

FZ1 for lower speeds (30mph). You'll still be clutching in and out and you'll be in 1st gear. Can do 2nd, but you'll be border-line lugging it. You can change the sprockets to lower the gearing, at the cost of higher RPM for highway speeds.

Vibration: there is some. Not nearly as much as most 600s, but it's not buttery smooth either. Heavier bar ends help quite a bit, especially at lower RPM.

FZ8.. that bike is discontinued. FZ09 is the *replacement*. Nearly as much torque as FZ1, 115hp, nearly 80+ pounds lighter than FZ1. Can't comment on vibration though. Also doubt FZ9 will be very good for 2-up riding, in terms of ergonomics, not that FZ1 is brilliant for it.
 
I agree that test rides are rare especially if you are looking at brand new like I was.

A little history of my decision on the 2012 FZ1 I bought. I'm almost 64 and have been riding bikes on and off since I was 17. So once I decided to get a bike I wanted a new one without any PO surprises. Shopping around was rather limiting in a smallet town like Bloomington/Normal is to Chicago where I spent most of my life.

I wanted a bike that was light, manueverable, and responsive. I also wanted a decen ergonomic platform because at my age I'm heading downhill physically which is why I wanted a light bike but in hindsight I could handle a Goldwing as long as I didn't drop it.

So I walk into the dealer in town looking for a retro Honda CB1100 which reminded me of the bikes in the late sixties and seventies of which I rode and owned. Well, they finally got one in stock a couple weeks ago. So I start looking at a Suzuki Bandit leftover but wasn't too motivated. A couple used FJRs were there but priced a bit high. The R1s were enticing but I could see a problem with the crotch rocket position. Then I sat on the white FZ1 and immediately felt that I can ride this all day in this position. I haggled a bit with the manager and then settled on an out the door price with 15% off any accessory for a year including riding gear. SOLD.

Now 5,000 miles and five months later I am glad I bought this beast. Powerful, only compared to bikes I had 30 years ago and I do not envision any track days in my near future. Does it handle well, yes sir, it eats up the twisties like candy. (We have the Illinois version of the Tail of the Dragon here, 10 miles and I don't know how may curves ant turns). Fuel milage, well its better than my Altima but I didn't set out to buy an econo bike. Comfortable, yes I rode almost non-stop for 300 miles yesterday only stopping for fuel. Insurance is pricey but much less than a car. Modifications, omly for convenience and comnfort like a taller windscreen, GIVI hard sdie cases, frame sliders, louder horn, SpeedoDRD and gps mount. I'd rather spend money on riding gear and a good helmet with a comm system than a slip on, PC V, and ECU flash. I never ride two up but do like the power on the highway.

I forgot about the one biggest drawback to the FZ1. It's too light to register on the sensors of my condo garage and the garage where I work. I have to use the assist button to exit the condo and take a ticket at work and toss it after showing the attendant the monthly pass.


That's my story and I'm sticking with it.
 
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Definitely good feedback, thanks!

Is power delivery at least pretty smooth in the lower ranges, i.e. it doesn't jump suddenly or feel too much like it's lugging? Frankly, when I'm just making a turn or pulling a U, I don't *want* to have a ton of power.

Does the engine generally feel smooth and stable and not vibrate too much at standard road speeds? Because that's one thing that's really irritating me about the VFR, the rumbling and the vibration until it hits about 5,000 RPM.
 
ON my 2012 the power is there whenever you twist the throttle. Now the throttle throw is very short so it's very easy to grab more than you want. I ride mostly in 1st and 2nd gear at anything below 40mph and it's pretty decent on my commutes which is now all on city streets.

On a U-turn you will want to feather the clutch.

Vibrations, everyone has a different tolerance but since I grew up on big English two cylinders I would say that it is smooth but not as smooth as a Goldwing or BMW.

Sound, I like the tame sound from the stock exhaust as do the two other FZ1 riders I ride with. (We're all over 40 years old.)

I cruise at 65 to 75 on the highways and in either 5th or 6th gear it just hums along very happy to be in the 4k to 5.5K range.
 
BigDave2040 said:
Wow, that FZ09 is a pretty ugly bike!
Click to expand...

Not always the prettiest one that gives the best BJ! LOL

I bough one... never event sit on it. I didn't like the tail end at all at the beginning, but it grow on me I guess. Should look better with a proper FE.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
 
How about an Aprilia Tuono V4R APRC?

Pretty good around town, nice eros, goes faster than a starship, and dealers allow test rides.

:)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
 
BigDave2040 said:
Definitely good feedback, thanks!

Is power delivery at least pretty smooth in the lower ranges, i.e. it doesn't jump suddenly or feel too much like it's lugging? Frankly, when I'm just making a turn or pulling a U, I don't *want* to have a ton of power.

Does the engine generally feel smooth and stable and not vibrate too much at standard road speeds? Because that's one thing that's really irritating me about the VFR, the rumbling and the vibration until it hits about 5,000 RPM.
Click to expand...

The power delivery is smooth and not jumpy. It builds progressively and predictably. However, if you're below 3k rpm and you twist the throttle in less than a smooth manner, it'll absolutely lug. And as mentioned above, you will need to be in the friction zone to do U-turns on this bike, in stock configuration. It's got tall gearing. It'll do about 8-10mph at idle in 1st, depending on your idle RPM setup.. but 8 is still too fast for very tight turns, so you'll be making friends with the clutch. Having said that, I find the clutch to be very light on this bike and the friction zone is very long and very easy to modulate.

The engine is very smooth. The only noticeable vibration, in my opinion, is at the handlebar, and I mostly feel it at about 5.2k RPM, which is a bit below 80 (not actual 80.. speedo reads high).

This is where extra heavy bar ends help a great deal. At lower RPM (3.5-4.5), it's very smooth for puttering around.
 
I cant say about the 09 but the 8 is a good solid bike. Pretty good smooth power delivery not a monster. The wife has one and I have a 1 we have raced them several times and honestly thru first gear up to 75ish mph the 1 doesnt really pull on the 8 at all. Once you get up into the higher R's the 1 leaves the 8 sitting still. The 8 is a great all around bike. It's comfortable, can be opened up quite a bit for more power. Outside of it only being made for a few years it would be good to look at.
The 1 is always a good choice too.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate it!

I'm still not entirely sold on either the FZ8 or FZ1 or even the Ninja 1000, but I think all of them are probably better options than the VFR1200. From what you all are saying, it sounds like I'd get a smoother ride on the low end and still have plenty of power to work with.

I don't know about the Aprilia though, it looks a little funky and I'm not sure I trust the build quality of those Italian bike makers :/
 
I guess you need to go ride a FZ1 then..lol. I always describe the power to my friends as electric..it just pulls as long as you are on the throttle...I have never rode a VFR1200 but they sure look like a nice bike. The nice thing about a FZ1 is it doesn't take to many mods to make it into the bike you want to have..
 
I went to the American International Expo on Sunday:

AIMExpo

It was great! I did a bunch of demo rides, the FZ8 and FZ09, and also the Suzuki V-Strom 650 and Boulevard M90 (Yamaha and Kawasaki were the only vendors doing demo rides). In retrospect I probably should have test rode the VMax and FJR instead, but I wanted to give Suzuki a shot too!

What I found was really surprising was that I liked the FZ8 *much* better than the FZ09. For what are being implicitly presented as comparable motorcycles, they feel incredibly different. The FZ8 was a smooth street bike with decent power that felt pretty planted the whole time, whereas the FZ09 felt like an overpowered dirt bike the whole time. It had kind of a consistently noticeable vibration, a very twitchy throttle, and a tendency for the front wheel to just lift off the ground. I think the somewhat rough engine character combined with the high seating position and light weight were just unpleasant to me. I can see how some people might want this out of a motorcycle, but it wasn't for me at all.

One thing I didn't like about the FZ8 was that the engine got pretty buzzy around 4k RPM, which cleared up quickly but then started again around 7k. Overall I did not find this to be a big problem, and not nearly as noticeable as a similar predisposition on the VFR1200 which pretty much felt like it started grinding and growling from 4k to 5k.

Unfortunately, they did not have an FZ1 to test ride. I've seen that everybody on this forum chastises the FZ8 for having worse numbers and theoretically worse parts, but I guess I'm not overly concerned with that since I felt like the FZ8 was powerful enough for street riding for me and certainly a big improvement over my FZ6R. And if numbers were everything, then we'd all be riding Hayabusas. I'd still be interested in buying an FZ1, but only if it has the same kind of smooth, controlled, planted feel as the FZ8 when kept at reasonable street riding RPM's (i.e. under 6k), with very little vibration. Can you guys provide any insight into that?

I also have to admit that the 2014 Ninja 1000 seems pretty compelling to me, with not only ABS but also traction control and street riding throttle setting. I know some people crap on things like ABS and traction control, but even after riding for three years I have what I feel is a pretty healthy fear of the shit hitting the fan on a bike and having some safety mechanisms to help me out in a panic situation. But that said, the N1K is also a considerably more expensive bike.
 
I bought the FZ1. Very nimble and plenty of power. When I first bought it I was disappointed. It didn't seem to fit me and the stock windshield was totally worthless. After putting 2" risers and a tall Rifle windshield on it, I absolutely love it. I haven't ridden the others, but I suspect they would be to small for my size 6' 195lbs. Vibration is not a problem, it's nice and smooth. At first the back suspension seemed way to stiff but when I took the back tire down to 38psi it made all the difference in the world. I'm not a racer and rarely go over 80-85mph but I do enjoy hitting the twisties at a decent pace and this bike handles and has the power when you need it. For me it turned out to be the perfect choice. Perfect for a day of fun riding or a commute. For a long trip I'll take the Harley.
 
BigDave2040 said:
I know some people crap on things like ABS and traction control, but even after riding for three years I have what I feel is a pretty healthy fear of the shit hitting the fan on a bike and having some safety mechanisms to help me out in a panic situation.
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Some people also think they are Valentino Rossi in the skills department :p

I've been riding 29 years and my opinion 99.9% of street riders will benefit from ABS and traction control when things get ugly.

If the Ninja had ABS available when I bought my FZ1 I would have purchased the Ninja instead just for that reason.
 
Totally agree, when someone pulls out on you when you least expect it, you will be wishing to god you have abs.
The first reaction is to grab a hand full, I don't care who you are.
Professional riders can out brake some ABS systems when they are expecting to use the brakes, I reckon it's a totally different story when you have no time or warning.


Sent from my GT-I9300
 
ballmead said:
Totally agree, when someone pulls out on you when you least expect it, you will be wishing to god you have abs.
The first reaction is to grab a hand full, I don't care who you are.
Professional riders can out brake some ABS systems when they are expecting to use the brakes, I reckon it's a totally different story when you have no time or warning.
Click to expand...

This is exactly it. In a controlled situation with perfect, dry conditions, perhaps it's possible for a professional to out brake modern ABS. If so, the differences are so minimal now it doesn't even matter. As soon as you introduce the professionals to some less than perfect conditions, ABS has proven to be superior.

I found a neat comparison test:
A Comparison of Stopping Distance Performance for Motorcycles Equipped with ABS, CBS and Conventional Hydraulic Brake Systems

In general, the test results demonstrated an improvement in braking performance with the use of ABS, whether braking on a dry or wet surface even compared with the best stops obtained without ABS.

Without ABS, the rider required numerous attempts to approach the maximum deceleration performance of the motorcycle.With the use of ABS, however, the rider was able to quickly obtain consistent maximum deceleration results, whether the vehicle was loaded or lightly loaded.
Click to expand...
 
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