Former Fz6 rider, looking at getting Fz1, advice/help????

In everyday riding, a STOCK GEN2 FZ1 is a very tame bike below 6K RPM. Get the FZ1 and spend your 1st upgrade money on getting a upgraded shock. As you gain experience, you can power-up the FZ1. If your patient, you can get everything you need used off the forums for much less than new. I have found that my fully modded FZ1 is easier to ride than a stock bike in any situation.
 
Ssky0078 said:
A question about cornering

I just got hooked on another spree of rnickey mouse's youtube channel. Best crash videos on the web.

And they have a bunch of guys in race suits on gsxxr's, R1s, duc's etc dragging knees on some pretty cool corners.

If you get your butt off the inside of the bike does that allow you to keep it more upright, thereby giving you more traction when going for speed in a corner.

BTW I don't intend to do this in the Fz1 or Fz6 just yet.
Click to expand...

There will be some pushback on this, but ..... STREET RIDING IS NOT THE PLACE TO BE HANGING OFF AND DRAGGING KNEES. Save that for track days.
 
Ssky0078 said:
'09 Fz6 vs '09 Fz1
HP: 97 HP at 1200 RPM vs 130 hp at 11500 RPM
Torque: 46.5 lb-ft at 1200 rpm vs 70 lb-ft at 9500 rpm (nice even 60 lb-ft till 7000 rpm)
Weight: 459 lbs wet weight vs 485 lbs wet weight
Weight:HP 4.73lbs/HP vs 3.73 lbs/HP
Front Brake: Dual 298.00 x 5.0 mm vs Dual 320.00 mm
Rear Brake: 245.00 x 5.00 mm vs 245.00 x 5.00 mm (same brakes in back)

To be honest the HP isnt' what scares me, the jump in torque is what scares me. That is what lifts the wheel off the ground and spins the tires if torque works the same way in motorcycles as in cars. :angel: I mean looking at the Dynochart on 2Bros website comparing stock can vs theirs from 7000-9500 is when the full kick comes in on the Fz1 which is much lower in the peak power curve in comparo to the Fz6

And as for cracking on the throttle, the Fz6 had plenty of balls to respect. I still had to manage it coming out of the corners and could only roll on hard if I was riding low rpms in the corner. If I had the RPMs up I could feel the back want to bust loose sometimes. I would only really crack on it when I was aimed in a straight line with a good distance of open space in front of me and no entrance/exits to the roadway. My favorite is the 1/4 mile on ramps we have here. Great place to legally practice 0-60.

Respect the bike the same way you respect a gun, the minute you stop paying attention is the minute somebody gets hurt is what my dad told me the other night when I was telling him about the discussion here.
Click to expand...
At 250lbs I wouldn`t be to worried about lifting the front wheel,I am 170lbs and never lift the front wheel and I am not a slow rider by any means, I roll on the throttle, not grab a fist full
 
Ssky0078 said:
A question about cornering

I just got hooked on another spree of rnickey mouse's youtube channel. Best crash videos on the web.

Mulholland Riders September 2012 - YouTube

And they have a bunch of guys in race suits on gsxxr's, R1s, duc's etc dragging knees on some pretty cool corners.

If you get your butt off the inside of the bike does that allow you to keep it more upright, thereby giving you more traction when going for speed in a corner. BTW I don't intend to do this in the Fz1 or Fz6 just yet.
Click to expand...

That is the current thinking. And much emotions attached. So much controversy and potential arguments. It is the fashion, though.

But the laws of physics still apply - no matter what lean you've got. It takes a certain amount of force (traction) to get you around that curve at that particular speed.
Does tipping the tire upright a few degrees change any of that? Not really. You have the same downward (gravity) force spread over a contact patch area. The tire is curved so contact patch is adjusted for the lean. And as the contact patch changes the normal force changes accordingly to provide the tangential forces. But the forces are the same.

I realize this is heretical talk and I will most likely be beaten severely. I must don my flame suit here.
But I see this from an engineering perspective (that is my background) - dynamics, coefficients of friction, force vectors, gravity vectors, normal (perpendicular) forces, tire deformations, etc.
I will not expand this discussion into an engineering analysis that would most likely be misunderstood and attacked.
It is only offered as a "what if" - for your question.

For your own wonderment, you can see some pretty amazing youtube moto riding - very twisty with some extremely competent riders that do not "hang" - they just really know how to ride - and balance!
Example: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B9L5XkPr0A&feature=related]Unreal Control On Honda CBR600RR - YouTube[/ame]


Good luck with your selection. You seem to have a good grasp and appreciation of most of the aspects of riding at an early stage. Better than many.
 
lindy said:
That is the current thinking. And much emotions attached. So much controversy and potential arguments. It is the fashion, though.

But the laws of physics still apply - no matter what lean you've got. It takes a certain amount of force (traction) to get you around that curve at that particular speed.
Does tipping the tire upright a few degrees change any of that? Not really. You have the same downward (gravity) force spread over a contact patch area. The tire is curved so contact patch is adjusted for the lean. And as the contact patch changes the normal force changes accordingly to provide the tangential forces. But the forces are the same.

I realize this is heretical talk and I will most likely be beaten severely. I must don my flame suit here.
But I see this from an engineering perspective (that is my background) - dynamics, coefficients of friction, force vectors, gravity vectors, normal (perpendicular) forces, tire deformations, etc.
I will not expand this discussion into an engineering analysis that would most likely be misunderstood and attacked.
It is only offered as a "what if" - for your question.

Good luck with your selection. You seem to have a good grasp and appreciation of most of the aspects of riding at an early stage. Better than many.
Click to expand...

I love physics class. A's in all of them (AP in high school and first semester in collge) except second semester where I had a GF and it was at 8AM so I skipped and still pulled a B+. (It was freaking electrical and sound engineering which I didn't care for anyway).

I'm glad you answered because that was the kind of thought process I was starting to crack into by asking the question.

So I am so jealous with that amazing rider guy. He looks about 5'6" and 130 pounds. After watching all these cornering videos with some people hanging their butt off and some people not I was beginning to wonder if in my crash had I been hanging off a little but the bike was more upright, instead of a 45 degree lean fully in the seat, if the gravel patch would not have been as bad of a factor. It was going from the lean into being stood up so fast that screwed me up and my reaction time was the limiting factor in recovery. LOL, I can remember the processing in my head of steps to take to correct rather than no-brainer reaction that more experience would allow for.
 
As counter-intuitive as it sounds, the best way through a turn is to lean the bike as little as possible. I guess a better way to say it is to not lean the bike any mor than you need to. Use your body to your advantage. If the bike had been more upright and you more inside the bike, you MIGHT have been able to save it. The fact that you're asking tells me you have a lot to learn about riding. I do not mean this to be offensive, I have a ton to learn about riding. Most of us do. I'm not going I recommend a bike. Make an informed choice and do what is right or you. Most if all, be safe. There's a lot of danger out there no matter what you ride.
 
lindy said:
That is the current thinking. And much emotions attached. So much controversy and potential arguments. It is the fashion, though.

But the laws of physics still apply - no matter what lean you've got. It takes a certain amount of force (traction) to get you around that curve at that particular speed.
Does tipping the tire upright a few degrees change any of that? Not really. You have the same downward (gravity) force spread over a contact patch area. The tire is curved so contact patch is adjusted for the lean. And as the contact patch changes the normal force changes accordingly to provide the tangential forces. But the forces are the same.

I realize this is heretical talk and I will most likely be beaten severely. I must don my flame suit here.
But I see this from an engineering perspective (that is my background) - dynamics, coefficients of friction, force vectors, gravity vectors, normal (perpendicular) forces, tire deformations, etc.
I will not expand this discussion into an engineering analysis that would most likely be misunderstood and attacked.
It is only offered as a "what if" - for your question.

For your own wonderment, you can see some pretty amazing youtube moto riding - very twisty with some extremely competent riders that do not "hang" - they just really know how to ride - and balance!
Example: Unreal Control On Honda CBR600RR - YouTube


Good luck with your selection. You seem to have a good grasp and appreciation of most of the aspects of riding at an early stage. Better than many.
Click to expand...

Did you see the size of that rear sprocket? :eek5: He must be running 5-10k at 10 mph. Still super impressive, but that's far from a stock CBR600RR.

Hanging off is for high speed turns, not low speed. :starwars:
 
jacobdahl said:
As counter-intuitive as it sounds, the best way through a turn is to lean the bike as little as possible. I guess a better way to say it is to not lean the bike any mor than you need to. Use your body to your advantage. If the bike had been more upright and you more inside the bike, you MIGHT have been able to save it. The fact that you're asking tells me you have a lot to learn about riding. I do not mean this to be offensive, I have a ton to learn about riding. Most of us do. I'm not going I recommend a bike. Make an informed choice and do what is right or you. Most if all, be safe. There's a lot of danger out there no matter what you ride.
Click to expand...

No offense taken, I am asking to learn. I mean I had the bike 1800 miles in 17 days and then crashed at low speed in what I felt if I had a little more experience I could of made the save. It was still gravel and many people said I was screwed anyway but I want to be awesome at all times.:cowboy:

After the prior beating, or what it felt like about 3 pages ago on this thread I think the topic has turned rather helpful. I'm tyring to get out of work early to go shoot video/pics today. Then see what you all have to say.
 
One thing is sure and I am saying this after 15 years of experience. Your learning will be much faster on a bike that you can manage. I myself question the use of a literbike for riding the twisties. I am seeing less and less reasoning for that. A 600 or a supermoto are the right tools made for that.
 
LOL...I definitely have some strong feelings on this one, and from unfortunate experience. I went from a VTX1800C to a new FZ6 back in 2009. I had the FZ6 for 2 months. Two. I HATED that bike. It's one of the very few, maybe the only bike I've ever hated with such feeling and strength. The rear shock wasn't great, the front forks were as bad, maybe worse than my cruisers, my wrists hurt badly on the bike, I could not get comfortable. The engine was a bit of a wheezer below 8k, I though. I had a YZF600R back in 2001, and that bike had better low end. I liked the top end though, and I thought the bike looked alright. So, I went and traded for a new FZ1. I actually went in the dealership and just parked myself in the saddle with the bike on the center stand for about an hour, maybe more. No wrist pain. Something about it felt much better. When I rode it home, I never looked back. It's possibly my favorite bike I've had, and I've been riding since I was a young kid...and I'm 43 now. I'm only 5'6", and in 120's with gear on. I'm not a heavy or tall person...and yet I can manage the 1000 with no problem. You can ride this bike easily or flat out and scare yourself. The handling is FAR superior to the FZ6, and when modded in the engine dept., this bike flat out hauls. I mean, it can be faaaast. You can ride it according to your skill level rather easily, I've found. My wife has an 09' R6, and she wiped out too...likely a newbie mistake. She was rattled, but she and the bike were very minimally hurt...and she's gaining courage more and more. Just get back at it and learn to ride better as time goes on...you can do it, and the FZ1 is a great step up from the FZ6. Gosh, I really like the FZ1...can ya tell?
 
CrazyBiker said:
One thing is sure and I am saying this after 15 years of experience. Your learning will be much faster on a bike that you can manage. I myself question the use of a literbike for riding the twisties. I am seeing less and less reasoning for that. A 600 or a supermoto are the right tools made for that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't necessarily just want it for the twisty's. Twice a month I have a long ride about 100 miles one way on the I-17 which about 45 miles of that is speed limit of 75. The vibes on the 600 really suck cranking about 6500 at 85 mph.
 
I just got video footage. Time to edit and I can show you guys what happened.

I will tell you flat out, it was mostly likely due to NOOB error. I thought I could save it, when I should have just attempted to stop. The distance to the edge got really short in my mind when the initial panic hit. In part my ego wanted the save and mixed with the fear factor I just effed up:teeter:The Devil won this round:box:

Video to come.
 
Got the video up and edited. I need to figure out a way to make the rendering and editing faster.

I kind of give a recap. It definitely helped to go back to the scene and repiece everything together.

I think I just got scared when I was looking out toward the edge of the road. I didn't think I could brake fast enough and went for the save instead and only ended up going down anyway. It was a bad mix of low light, bad road, poor skill, target fixation and not trusting my ability to stop quick enough.

It all happened in 5 seconds or less.

Crash Review - YouTube
 
troyw said:
LOL...I definitely have some strong feelings on this one, and from unfortunate experience. I went from a VTX1800C to a new FZ6 back in 2009. I had the FZ6 for 2 months. Two. I HATED that bike. It's one of the very few, maybe the only bike I've ever hated with such feeling and strength. The rear shock wasn't great, the front forks were as bad, maybe worse than my cruisers, my wrists hurt badly on the bike, I could not get comfortable. The engine was a bit of a wheezer below 8k, I though. I had a YZF600R back in 2001, and that bike had better low end. I liked the top end though, and I thought the bike looked alright. So, I went and traded for a new FZ1. I actually went in the dealership and just parked myself in the saddle with the bike on the center stand for about an hour, maybe more. No wrist pain. Something about it felt much better. When I rode it home, I never looked back. It's possibly my favorite bike I've had, and I've been riding since I was a young kid...and I'm 43 now. I'm only 5'6", and in 120's with gear on. I'm not a heavy or tall person...and yet I can manage the 1000 with no problem. You can ride this bike easily or flat out and scare yourself. The handling is FAR superior to the FZ6, and when modded in the engine dept., this bike flat out hauls. I mean, it can be faaaast. You can ride it according to your skill level rather easily, I've found. My wife has an 09' R6, and she wiped out too...likely a newbie mistake. She was rattled, but she and the bike were very minimally hurt...and she's gaining courage more and more. Just get back at it and learn to ride better as time goes on...you can do it, and the FZ1 is a great step up from the FZ6. Gosh, I really like the FZ1...can ya tell?
Click to expand...

You know... there is a lot to be said for liking the motorcycle you are going to ride. If you hate something - for whatever reason - even so-called unimportant stuff like style, color, sound, ... -- much less the more important stuff like vibration, handling, ... -- what's the point?
What's the point of riding - if you don't like it?

You can logic it to death ... and I'm seeing some logic stuff here in this thread ...but the logic stuff is not what riding is about for most. Motorcycles are not logical things... Cars are much more logical.
If it's just logic that is of most concern - use a car! It's much, much more logical. Much, much safer...

I totally see this post.

And I see getting a motorcycle that you like.
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht5qVb-6vz4&feature=g-crec-u]Crash Review - YouTube[/ame]

Check out the video of how I went down. I dunno if the Fz6 guys are just being nice but the more I've watched it I can see where it was my fault and how to be prepared in the future.
 
Time, miles and practice will give you the experience you need. Gravel? Bike? High side? Yes, I've been there and done that on my current FZ1. Thanks to the sliders, the damage was very limited and I rode it away. I've been on two wheel since I was 11. I'm almost 48 now. I had 26+ years between accidents and then two years in a row, put down this same FZ1. Gravel/sand once, patch of diesel fuel next... No saving, no fixation, no excuses, just instant loss of control and "falling correctly" which came from years of dirt bikes and lots of crashing. ;)

The FZ1 is absolutely a better bike for me all around than the FZ6. I owned both the Gen 1 and II FZ6 models. Never crashed either of those, btw.... :tup: I'm 220 lbs and as mentioned, if you weigh over the factory spring weight of 175 lbs, you will be replacing suspension or learning to deal with the (thanks Pete!) noodle ride. The brakes are a lot better than the 6 but, like you, I tend to rely a lot more on engine braking and my gearbox. That being said, plan on at least SS lines as a first fix for the brakes. If you do this right away, you will not need to re-learn braking on the FZ1 like I did... three years on the stock equipment, then I put on the SS lines and my first hard stop was a stoppie!

Power.... totally different beast but still, the FZ1 can be as tame as you want or as crazy as you want. Under 5500 RPMs, it's predictable. Start hitting 6500 to 7k and you better have heels dug in and a firm grasp on the grips. I don't have a lot of issues with the front being light and leaving the road unless you really ham-fist it while over 7k, but then you're just being irrational and lacking in common sense (maybe even a death wish?)

Handling.... for guys our size, it isn't an issue. The FZ1 with some parts trimmed and a nice light aftermarket exhaust is almost the same weight as the FZ6! I find the bike easy to handle in the corners but it helps to drop the triples on the forks about 4 - 5 mm to change the handling. You can accomplish the same effect with a Penske 8983 which raises the rear respectably. Another option is going to the 190/55 rear which is a more rounded profile tire and this bike literally wants to FALL into the corners.... dreamy!

Buy it, put protection on it, SS lines and get some suspension quickly. You will not regret it.

-Eric
 
Ssky0078 said:
Crash Review - YouTube

Check out the video of how I went down. I dunno if the Fz6 guys are just being nice but the more I've watched it I can see where it was my fault and how to be prepared in the future.
Click to expand...

You know, looking at your video, I don't see why you are all that upset about what happened. You almost slid into the Grand Canyon! That road was right on the edge of it. The white line was like one foot and a sage brush from The Rim!

Seriously, though ... I understand why you are upset - because it happened at all .. and you got yourself into that mess. But it could have been so much worse. You really were on the verge of going down into an actual canyon!
 
lindy said:
You know, looking at your video, I don't see why you are all that upset about what happened. You almost slid into the Grand Canyon! That road was right on the edge of it. The white line was like one foot and a sage brush from The Rim!

Seriously, though ... I understand why you are upset - because it happened at all .. and you got yourself into that mess. But it could have been so much worse. You really were on the verge of going down into an actual canyon!
Click to expand...

Do you ever wish you could just find the right picture? You said the Grand Canyon and my first thought was the first time I went to the South Rim of the Canyon and I ran up to the edge and looked back over my shoulder and hollered at my friend get a picture of this as I faked like I was urinating.

I am very lucky, somebody was looking out for me that day. If the bush hadn't stopped me I was going to be busted up pretty bad.

I just grew up in a house where after sports games my dad would spend the entire car ride home (and up till bed sometimes) telling me what I could have done different to get a better result. It's still stuck in my head. So, those of you with kids be mindful of that or you'll get an adult like me that replays and analyzes stuff over and over.
 
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