Yet another reason to change to dual SS brake lines...

Hellgate

Hellgate

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Today I installed new EBC HH front brake pads on the fizz. With 25k on the bike I moving through the various consumable parts to bring them up-to-date.

The pads I pulled out were the original Sumitomo pads. Here's what's interesting...three of the pads had similar wear - about 50%. However pad "Number 4", who came from the right caliper, from the inside position, as pretty much burnt toast with about 75% wear.

Put on a dual line SS kit this problem should be eliminated. Cheers...

Once the rectifier is in on Thursday I'll give a write up.
 
For those that do not fully understand the "why" this happens, can you elaborate on how one pad got the excessive wear and the other three were consistent, then why SS lines will prevent this from happening again? Thanks Pete!
 
I wonder why yours look like that when all my pads are the same.I looked at them when I changed lines.
I had the stock lines for 17k miles.I now have the dual lines from HEL love them.
 
FZ1inNH said:
For those that do not fully understand the "why" this happens, can you elaborate on how one pad got the excessive wear and the other three were consistent, then why SS lines will prevent this from happening again? Thanks Pete!
Click to expand...

Hehehe...funny you should ask Eric as I had that in my initial draft of the post...

When the brake is applied the pressure travels from the master cyclinder to the right caliper first. As the right caliper's pads touch the rotor the pressure then travels to the left caliper. Once the left caliper's pads touch the left rotor the pressure begins to equalize within the system. It appears that particular pad, because it is first in line, receives the majority of the pressure and in turn wears more than the other pads.

By removing the stock lines and replacing them with two more-or-less equal length lines the pressure to each caliper will be equal. That and they look cool.
 
Thanks Pete! You knew someone was going to ask! I did not know the answer but what you described is exactly how I envisioned this happening... the cascade effect! :D
 
Hellgate said:
Hehehe...funny you should ask Eric as I had that in my initial draft of the post...

When the brake is applied the pressure travels from the master cyclinder to the right caliper first. As the right caliper's pads touch the rotor the pressure then travels to the left caliper. Once the left caliper's pads touch the left rotor the pressure begins to equalize within the system. It appears that particular pad, because it is first in line, receives the majority of the pressure and in turn wears more than the other pads.

By removing the stock lines and replacing them with two more-or-less equal length lines the pressure to each caliper will be equal. That and they look cool.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is the reason in racing applications you always see two separate lines for the front calipers. There are some OEM setups like that as well, but for the most part they use one line from the front master cylinder to a T-fitting that then splits to each individual caliper. My YZF1000 came with a dual line set up for the front as you can see. I still replaced them with HEL braided lines since they were 13 years old.
 
Hellgate said:
Hehehe...funny you should ask Eric as I had that in my initial draft of the post...

When the brake is applied the pressure travels from the master cyclinder to the right caliper first. As the right caliper's pads touch the rotor the pressure then travels to the left caliper. Once the left caliper's pads touch the left rotor the pressure begins to equalize within the system. It appears that particular pad, because it is first in line, receives the majority of the pressure and in turn wears more than the other pads.

By removing the stock lines and replacing them with two more-or-less equal length lines the pressure to each caliper will be equal. That and they look cool.
Click to expand...

Ok Kool, but based on your explanation do you think Yamaha designed it this way for a reason or, do you feel it's a poor design??? I'm just saying/asking
I'm also a member of a cruiser forum and lots of folks there upgrade to SS braided lines, but I think it's mostly for looks than the understanding on what the difference is.
 
The other reason for upgrading the braided SS lines is consistency. Standard rubber lines expand and contract. They can expand enough when under hard braking to give you a very uncomfortable and "mushy" feel. This makes your braking less effective and your mind wonder if you need better brakes. Well, replacing the lines with SS braided lines greatly reduces the expansion thus giving you much more responsive braking and more precision control.
 
gtbigup01 said:
Ok Kool, but based on your explanation do you think Yamaha designed it this way for a reason or, do you feel it's a poor design??? I'm just saying/asking
I'm also a member of a cruiser forum and lots of folks there upgrade to SS braided lines, but I think it's mostly for looks than the understanding on what the difference is.
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Most bike manufacturers use this design because it is inexpensive and functional. The average rider would never know that he/she was missing anything. When you change over to Braided lines then you know how much better the design really is. The better looks is just a bonus. But hey, do it for the looks and the performance improvement is a huge bonus.:flash:
 
Here is one link: Home Page

I have the HEL lines on my bike, Carbon fiber "look" ( kind of brownish grey transparent cover over the stainless) with gold coloured fittings. The Banjo bolts are plain stainless. They are good quality with NO signs of rust after driving in rain and a number of washes.

I have Galfer ones on my other bike; plain stainless fittings and lines. The banjo bolts on it are starting to show rust spots already and they are only a month old!

I would recomend the HEL lines before the Galfer for this reason alone.
 
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Hellgate said:
Hehehe...funny you should ask Eric as I had that in my initial draft of the post...

When the brake is applied the pressure travels from the master cyclinder to the right caliper first. As the right caliper's pads touch the rotor the pressure then travels to the left caliper. Once the left caliper's pads touch the left rotor the pressure begins to equalize within the system. It appears that particular pad, because it is first in line, receives the majority of the pressure and in turn wears more than the other pads.

By removing the stock lines and replacing them with two more-or-less equal length lines the pressure to each caliper will be equal. That and they look cool.
Click to expand...

Not true. While it might seem logical, that is not what happens. When the brake is applied pressure rises in the whole line equally - at the same time. Your problem is more likely from a sticky piston in the caliper.
 
gtbigup01 said:
Ok Kool, but based on your explanation do you think Yamaha designed it this way for a reason or, do you feel it's a poor design??? I'm just saying/asking
I'm also a member of a cruiser forum and lots of folks there upgrade to SS braided lines, but I think it's mostly for looks than the understanding on what the difference is.
Click to expand...

In a word, cost. For the street the OEM layout works great and is cheaper than SS. For performance riding SS is the way to go; better feel, no squish.
 
Rick said:
Not true. While it might seem logical, that is not what happens. When the brake is applied pressure rises in the whole line equally - at the same time. Your problem is more likely from a sticky piston in the caliper.
Click to expand...

Nope the pistons are fine. I'll let you know what I find out in another 25K, stay tuned.
 
When I got my Speedmaster I noticed that Triumph put brake lines on that are nothing like anything I had seen before. They are about half the diameter of "normal" brake lines and semi-rigid. They are flexible enough to move with the suspension but there is no swelling as with normal brake lines when the lever or peddle is depressed. For a cruiser, the brake feeling is really good.
 
Lonerider59 said:
When I got my Speedmaster I noticed that Triumph put brake lines on that are nothing like anything I had seen before. They are about half the diameter of "normal" brake lines and semi-rigid. They are flexible enough to move with the suspension but there is no swelling as with normal brake lines when the lever or peddle is depressed. For a cruiser, the brake feeling is really good.
Click to expand...

I've noticed that some of the new cruisers are using some sort of braided brake lines form the factory. I guess it's mainly for aesthetic reasons since on a cruiser they are more exposed that on a bike with fairings. However, it probably helps with braking performance as well.
 
Hellgate said:
Nope the pistons are fine. I'll let you know what I find out in another 25K, stay tuned.
Click to expand...

They will likely not go that far.

They are not fine if one brake pad is wearing a lot more than another (dragging). Take your calipers off and remove all of the pistons. You'll probably find some dirt and debris on one of them or in the piston bores. It would be a good idea to replace the seals too, simply cleaning them usually will not fix the problem. A lot of times a seal will start to harden causing the piston to retract slowly. When that happens, pad wear is accelerated. It's as simple as that.
 
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