Tuning advice

[dangerous]

My take on it is if your going/is to mod, Ivan`s most likely is the way to go,but if you want to keep the bike basicially stock than someone like ecunleashed may be the preferred way?

I think ecuunleashed and the ecu flash seabass has had are different.
Seabass had his bike flashed on a dyno which is the best way to get perfect fueliing. No 2 bikes are exactly the same.

Ivans way is the best if you keep modifying your bike but it still needs a custom map on a dyno to be sure the fueling is perfect.

 

[Hellgate]

Or you can use Flash Tune. They offer free reflashes.

Flash-Tune Inc

Point being, like tires there are lots of options out there these days.

 

[Seabass]

Dangerous is spot on, i had it done the ideal way ie ECU remap in conjunction with dyno runs, I made no alterations to the engine itself, just a pipercross filter (recommended by Geoff at Hilltop) and had the mid pipe customized to retain the exup (again on recommendation), gutted cat and baffle out. No airbox mod, no AIS block off plates, no aftermarket velocity stacks, and now a healthy 147 rwhp and 78lb/ft at the wheel. The only benefit of a pc that I can see is the resale-ability if selling the bike, otherwise ECU remap all the way. In spring I think I will get it dyno'd to see what its kicking out, just to confirm power figures. Oh and its a california model!

 

[eurban]

Dangerous is spot on, i had it done the ideal way ie ECU remap in conjunction with dyno runs, I made no alterations to the engine itself, just a pipercross filter (recommended by Geoff at Hilltop) and had the mid pipe customized to retain the exup (again on recommendation), gutted cat and baffle out. No airbox mod, no AIS block off plates, no aftermarket velocity stacks, and now a healthy 147 rwhp and 78lb/ft at the wheel. The only benefit of a pc that I can see is the resale-ability if selling the bike, otherwise ECU remap all the way. In spring I think I will get it dyno'd to see what its kicking out, just to confirm power figures. Oh and its a california model!

Do you know what alterations (other than fueling which I presume was tweaked on the Dyno) were done to the ecu? Things like decel fuel cut elimination, power restricitions in 1st/ 2nd gear removal, ignition "curve" alterations, secondary throttle butterfly control etc etc...Did they do this from scratch in a few hours at the shop or was it based on package developed for the FZ with the fuel tweaks being done on the spot?

Not to be a di** but it has been pretty definitively shown that the EXUP valve on the genII has no performance benefit and is most likely used by Yamaha as a way of meeting noise standards. The GenI's setup is another story and may have been why your shop was keen on it. AIS block off plates are not a power mod by rather a mod to eliminate popping on deceleration which most often becomes noticeable after installing a slipon or full system. . . A dyno chart showing the complete power curve will tell you more than a top number figure. The 147hp on top is reasonable as it is not too far off what slip on owners with gutted cats report with a decent Power Commander map. The most useable power gains for the GenII (imho) are those in the midrange where when combined with a full exhaust system&intake mods the I-flash gains about 25hp (100hp vs 75hp at 7krpms) over the stock bike, all with impeccable power delivery.

 

[Mattsplat]

I had mine done at the same place as Seabass, Geoff at Hilltop Motorcycles.

I just sent my ecu, with all my mods listed plus a few other barometric details and it came back spot on. Feels and pulls like a litre bike should do.

 

[dangerous]

Dyno graphs

Do you know what alterations (other than fueling which I presume was tweaked on the Dyno) were done to the ecu? Things like decel fuel cut elimination, power restricitions in 1st/ 2nd gear removal, ignition "curve" alterations, secondary throttle butterfly control etc etc...Did they do this from scratch in a few hours at the shop or was it based on package developed for the FZ with the fuel tweaks being done on the spot?

Not to be a di** but it has been pretty definitively shown that the EXUP valve on the genII has no performance benefit and is most likely used by Yamaha as a way of meeting noise standards. The GenI's setup is another story and may have been why your shop was keen on it. AIS block off plates are not a power mod by rather a mod to eliminate popping on deceleration which most often becomes noticeable after installing a slipon or full system. . . A dyno chart showing the complete power curve will tell you more than a top number figure. The 147hp on top is reasonable as it is not too far off what slip on owners with gutted cats report with a decent Power Commander map. The most useable power gains for the GenII (imho) are those in the midrange where when combined with a full exhaust system&intake mods the I-flash gains about 25hp (100hp vs 75hp at 7krpms) over the stock bike, all with impeccable power delivery.

Hi Eurban
See the dyno graphs on post 21.

http://www.998cc.org/forum/gen-ii-tech/17072-ecu-re-map-hilltop-motorcycles-3.html

Hope they tell you what you need.

 

[eurban]

Ok so it looks like from Sebass's dyno chart that the flash netted good results (as least as they can be seen on a dyno) with the profile and area under the curve being similar to charts I have seen with a Power Commander&good map, slip on exhaust, gutted cat, airbox mod, airfilter, fce etc. The dip at 7k is pretty typical with the stock header which has a short collector section (in order to fit the 2 cats) and doesn't scavenge well in the mid range. Going to a full system like the Yosh would probably net you as much as 10-12hp at 7k and turn the dip into a bulge. Here are two charts, the first being Sebass' "3rd/final run" and one of Ivans's. For Ivan's the blue line shows the flash combined a PC and his map+the full Yosh system+air filter+airbox mod+the stock flies. . .
Of course, things like deceleration fuel cut, 1st&2nd gear power limitations, fuel mileage and overall power delivery will not really show up on a dyno chart. . .

 

[Seabass]

Eurban you are certainly not being a d**k, sounds like you are just interested in the different approaches, nothing wrong with that! With regard to the exup, doing a bit of research on it gave me reason to believe that it improves engine response at low rpm, and Geoff recommended I keep it if possible (this is a guy that tinkers with BSB superbikes, namely Shakey's and Chris Walkers BSB 210rwhp ZX10-R, so who am I to argue!), in my opinion the ECU re-map in conjunction with dyno runs is the best way, as opposed to sending ECU off for a re-map, as adjustments can be made in between runs for the perfect map. Seriously the air/fuel ratio is spot on now, and the bike pulls cleanly, with no bogginess on pulling away, low end torque is vastly improved, and the dreaded fuel snatch is non existent. You are correct I could add aftermarket headers for even better results, although as dangerous has said this bike behaves as a litre bike should now, just goes to prove how corked up this bike is, this really is a beast of a bike once uncorked.

 

[johnyrideherfaster]

a power commander without having it dyno tuned is a waste of money.

In the process my self and I just talked to Ivan he told me not to take my Ivaninised ecu bike in for tuning it will open a can of worms. Just install like he says and you should have a great running bike it worked out for me very well, except I do still have the on off throttle thing when I crack it from close it has that annoying jump. But I will call Ivan Im shure it is something I did wrong with setting my values.

 

[jared p]

In the process my self and I just talked to Ivan he told me not to take my Ivaninised ecu bike in for tuning it will open a can of worms. Just install like he says and you should have a great running bike it worked out for me very well, except I do still have the on off throttle thing when I crack it from close it has that annoying jump. But I will call Ivan Im shure it is something I did wrong with setting my values.

sorry to disagree with ivan but fine tuning the fuel trims on a power commander for your specific bike shouldn't be discouraged. or are you only doing a flash?

 

[ballmead]

Ivan's fuel map is really different to most af tuned maps that I've had done for my bike previously.
Funnily enough, it works quite well, the bike is really smooth and powerful.
You can always try a custom map but in my experience, you will lose some of the smoothness getting back on the throttle.
What I just did recently was get my Ivan's flashed ECU custom mapped to get the af better as I'm using a dB killer and have different headers.
I wasn't happy to lose the smoothness getting back on the throttle so I modified my 0,2 and 5% throttle areas on the custom map close to Ivan's settings but I took 33% off Ivan's values.
I left the 10%+ throttle areas as per the custom map and I'm really happy with the results.
The bike is still very smooth and my af ratio is much better and a bit more efficient too.

Sent from my Nexus 5

 

[jared p]

Ivan's fuel map is really different to most af tuned maps that I've had done for my bike previously.
Funnily enough, it works quite well, the bike is really smooth and powerful.
You can always try a custom map but in my experience, you will lose some of the smoothness getting back on the throttle.
What I just did recently was get my Ivan's flashed ECU custom mapped to get the af better as I'm using a dB killer and have different headers.
I wasn't happy to lose the smoothness getting back on the throttle so I modified my 0,2 and 5% throttle areas on the custom map close to Ivan's settings but I took 33% off Ivan's values.
I left the 10%+ throttle areas as per the custom map and I'm really happy with the results.
The bike is still very smooth and my af ratio is much better and a bit more efficient too.

Sent from my Nexus 5

every bike is a little different. btw if your tuner left you with a tune that was less smooth than what you went in with, i'd have words with them. glad you got it sorted though.

every bike is different, i say it again, cuz it's true. you can have two identical bikes need fuel maps that are totally different yet end up with the same graphs, each bike should be tweaked because each bike is different from the other.

 

[ballmead]

every bike is a little different. btw if your tuner left you with a tune that was less smooth than what you went in with, i'd have words with them. glad you got it sorted though.

every bike is different, i say it again, cuz it's true. you can have two identical bikes need fuel maps that are totally different yet end up with the same graphs, each bike should be tweaked because each bike is different from the other.

The only area where it's less smooth is getting back on the throttle.
Without giving too much away Ivan's map is radically different in the lower throttle positions and he has done this to cater for fuel cut elimination, vibration and temperate.
I was expecting the custom map to be less smooth on the lower throttle positions as only Ivan knows what and how he has flashed the ECU.
This is the beauty of Ivan's flash, the fuelling can easily be modified if you want to.
Did I need to get it mapped? Probably not, as the bike ran really well but it always was in the back of my mind that my bike is a little different to Ivan's and being a fussy bugger, I had to give it a go.

Sent from my Nexus 5

 

[Dicko]

I get mine dyno-tuned after any modification that affects the engine performance. You need to get everything in balance and as Jared said, every bike is different. Plugging in someone else map may get you a better feel than what you had, but a dyno-tune from an experienced tuner will get you by far the best results.