Track riding - novice group - life after intro

Erci

Erci

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Absolute Cycles breaks down their riders into 4 groups:

Intro, novice, advanced and expert. (not sure if it's the same for all organizations).

Last Saturday was my 2nd time riding with ACE and since I was evaluated last time and lost my red shirt, I was told I could ride in novice group.

My 1st session was predictably slow. This was on a new-to-me track (Lightning) and I was taking my time learning the lines, picking out visuals and just getting general feel for the track. Other riders were flying by, and I was totally fine with that.

For my 2nd session, I dropped down to intro to ride with my friends and to see if the lines I chose on my own were close to the lines ridden by coaches.

For my 3rd session, I went back to novice group and while my overall speed increased.. everyone else in the group seems to have flipped the switch to full-on race mode. I've no issues with people passing me, but passing within a foot of me? On the inside, pushing me wide? Passing on the outside is allowed in novice group, but inside passers should have been flagged, no?

I felt anything, but safe, and wasn't having fun at all. I actually decided to pit in, after 3 laps and just as I was doing so, another red flag went up (3rd of the day, in novice group). These guys were crashing left and right all day!!

I overheard that they split riders up within the intro group. There were 4-5 faster people. So I dropped down to intro and got on the back of the faster 5 (pun intended :D ) and had a great time for the rest of the day (2 more sessions).

My question is this: how can I safely continue to have fun and make progress without being what felt like a standing obstacle on the track?! Is it normal for novice group to ride like this?
 
In my (very limited) experience it depends on the track and the riders you're with. Make sure you let your coaches/ group leaders know you feel that way so they ensure you are progressing at a comfortable pace. On the flip side its a track day with novices, so most will go as "fast" as their wits allow regardless of how unsafe that mentality is. Try other track day organizers such as STT. I almost refuse to ride with anyone else. STT coaches are awesome and they tend to be very strict when it comes to unsafe riding.
 
I do not have any insight to your questions, but I must say that (as someone who has never been on the moto track), your observations are very interesting to me. It seems to me that one would definitely rather be in a "slower" class, but having fun while doing it. I will be excited to see some experienced track rider input here.

After having so much fun on our ride last week Eric, I have a feeling its going to be that much easier to be talked into some track events next season! Thanks for sharing!
 
speeddemon2588 said:
Make sure you let your coaches/ group leaders know you feel that way so they ensure you are progressing at a comfortable pace.
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I did let one coach know. He politely brushed it off "yeah, it's the last day of the season.. the guys are really going for it". He also said that flaggers weren't doing their jobs if they allowed inside passing.

I don't want anyone to have to slow down on my account, but at the same time I don't want to feel like a have a target painted on my back.

I'm wondering if there's a certain track etiquette and *the right place to be* for slowest rider in the group.
 
It should be track etiquette to not force people into the pits. There were plenty of slower riders in my sessions, it wasn't hard to wait for a straight to pass. This is a requirement at STT events. Another thing they pushed for us was to be consistent in your lines, that way other riders can gauge where to pass you. JOTR will likely have better insight.
 
The term is "moving chicane."

Just maintain your line and keep practicing.

Personally I've never understood the pass on the outstanding. As the person doing the pass I have hope and trust the person on the inside will hold their line an not drift wide. Vale this weekend is good example. In racing you pass to the inside and the person getting past yields the line.

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There is a huge difference between Track riding and racing. You cannot compare the two.

There seem to be two problems here. Either the OP is not ready to move up to novice, or the CR's and corner workers were not doing their job. Or both. I am putting my bet mostly on the latter.

I'll tell you that this would not have happened with STT, even in Advanced. Stuffing the corners is a strict no-no.
 
Hellgate said:
The term is "moving chicane."

Just maintain your line and keep practicing.

Personally I've never understood the pass on the outstanding. As the person doing the pass I have hope and trust the person on the inside will hold their line an not drift wide. Vale this weekend is good example. In racing you pass to the inside and the person getting past yields the line.
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Can't really maintain my line if I'm being passed on the inside, can I? I'm dipping the bike in aiming for the apex, but now there's a rider braking late into apex.. I have no choice, but to go wider than my intended line. :confused:

It has been pounded into me to not trust others and to be honest, I don't really want to trust others.. having seen all the unnecessary crashes this weekend.

What I need is my own track! :rofl:
 
DieselFZ1 said:
There is a huge difference between Track riding and racing. You cannot compare the two.

There seem to be two problems here. Either the OP is not ready to move up to novice, or the CR's and corner workers were not doing their job. Or both. I am putting my bet mostly on the latter.

I'll tell you that this would not have happened with STT, even in Advanced. Stuffing the corners is a strict no-no.
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I will gladly stay in intro, if there will be a split of slower and faster riders. My 1st session of the day felt very slow. My last 2 sessions in the faster group of intro were plenty fast for me.

But at very least, it's a combination of the 2.. no one was flagged or talked to for passing on the inside or passing too closely.
 
My guess is they will not add a 5th group, that is a lot to manage and it shortens everyone elses session time down.

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"Mobile chicane" and "moving chicane" are terms often used to disparage slower drivers and vehicles who delay other competitors. In some cases they may not move out of the way quickly enough to allow competitors in higher positions (having completed more laps) past, despite repeated showings of blue flags. This can cost competitors valuable time and championship points.

I'm trying to figure out if I should intentionally go slower on the straights so faster riders can pass me there, instead of in the turns? :confused:
 
Erci said:
"Mobile chicane" and "moving chicane" are terms often used to disparage slower drivers and vehicles who delay other competitors. In some cases they may not move out of the way quickly enough to allow competitors in higher positions (having completed more laps) past, despite repeated showings of blue flags. This can cost competitors valuable time and championship points.

I'm trying to figure out if I should intentionally go slower on the straights so faster riders can pass me there, instead of in the turns? :confused:
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No, you shouldn't. You should ride at about 80% of your comfort level, leaving some wiggle room for mistakes and buffoons. I think you would have a better experience if you ride with a more "structured" organization next time. Like STT or Nesba.
 
DieselFZ1 said:
No, you shouldn't. You should ride at about 80% of your comfort level, leaving some wiggle room for mistakes and buffoons. I think you would have a better experience if you ride with a more "structured" organization next time. Like STT or Nesba.
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Gotcha.. thanks for the advice! :tup:
 
The problem with the lower groups is that they all ride different lines and it can be out right dangerous.
If you are riding slower than the majority of riders then unfortunately for you people will pass you anyway they can.
Track riding is not for everyone as their is a fair bit of risk involved.
Maybe you should do some rider training days at the track so you can get used to it and learn some new skills that will help you next time.

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Erci, welcome to NJMP. Its filled with friggin idiots. I have many theories as to why and some of them plausible. I have ridden with every organization that holds trackdays there and I can tell you for sure its a Jerzy thing. I like to ride weekday events at NJMP when ever possible, its a much better crowd. I do prefer TPM over the other Orgs (and I have friends that coach for absolute) I think that they keep a better handle on it than the others but even then NJMP can turn into a shit show on any given saturday or sunday.

Once you get your feet wet at some other tracks you will see what I mean. Shenandoah at Summit point raceway is labeled as a "dangerous" track. My last time there was a saturday/sunday. One red flag was thrown the entire weekend and that guy was riding his next session( Multi Strada, kickstand touched down and lifted his wheel).

As far as how to handle it... Like others have said ride your ride. Worry only about what is in front of you. If someone is trying really hard to get around me and is showing me a wheel, I will hold off on my roll on and let them take my out of the corner. You can also hot pit. most pit marshalls will send you out onto clean, open track. You will at some point become accustom to the repeated buzzing and then graduate to buzzer.
 
johnnyontherocks said:
Erci, welcome to NJMP. Its filled with friggin idiots. I have many theories as to why and some of them plausible. I have ridden with every organization that holds trackdays there and I can tell you for sure its a Jerzy thing. I like to ride weekday events at NJMP when ever possible, its a much better crowd. I do prefer TPM over the other Orgs (and I have friends that coach for absolute) I think that they keep a better handle on it than the others but even then NJMP can turn into a shit show on any given saturday or sunday.

Once you get your feet wet at some other tracks you will see what I mean. Shenandoah at Summit point raceway is labeled as a "dangerous" track. My last time there was a saturday/sunday. One red flag was thrown the entire weekend and that guy was riding his next session( Multi Strada, kickstand touched down and lifted his wheel).

As far as how to handle it... Like others have said ride your ride. Worry only about what is in front of you. If someone is trying really hard to get around me and is showing me a wheel, I will hold off on my roll on and let them take my out of the corner. You can also hot pit. most pit marshalls will send you out onto clean, open track. You will at some point become accustom to the repeated buzzing and then graduate to buzzer.
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Awesome info, Johnny, thanks!! :tup:

It is definitely my plan to do as many weekday events as possible, next year (made that decision before this post).

Ironically, I know no one at ACE, but have a friend who's a coach at TPM (he's also a range coordinator for one of the sites where I coach for MSF). I went with Absolute because they had that ridiculously good $99 first timer deal and ended up buying a Platinum pass for next year which will pay for itself if I ride with them just one more time.

I am also planning on doing Level 2 CSS.. and maybe Level 3 as well, next year. We'll see how it goes.
 
Dam Erci that sounds pretty scary having to trust people that you dont know especially if some are riding like dickheads


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