Taking the plunge: R1 Fork Conversion

Loose steering bearings

My steering stem bearings loosened up. It started a while ago but I didn't know that's what it was. It looked like only the front wheel was moving so after a telephone consultation with the Moto-hubby, he suggested I go ahead and get the front wheel bearings done. Got them done but the problem persisted. I thought it just might have been the nature of the R1 swap because it was only slight movement that I only noticed when I physically moved the wheel. Well, this weekend after i hit a massive pothole, the hole front end started moving under braking!

I was ready to drive off of the mountain thinking about the monumental mistake I made and how I should have listened to everybody and left well enough alone. Feeling morose, I decided to slab directly home. Cruzman looked at the bike and diagnosed it as loose steering stem. I was relieved but still morose. He said we could tighten it then but I told him no. I paid a professional to install it so the professional would fix it.

I called Lorne @ OTC on Monday and he said no problem, it'd only take a few minutes to tighten it up and I could stop by any time they were open. Took it yesterday and watched as he tried to get it tight enough but couldn't. He had help from a guy who is an AMA mechanic who just happened to be in there when I showed up. (dude with his back to the camera)
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After some cursing and discussions, they decided there must be a piece missing because they couldn't get it tight enough. Cruzman texted me a couple of pics of his steering bearings and we discovered that I was missing the silver cap peice. It was on the bike when I took it in, but not when I got it back. The bolts are just resting on the rubber cap thingie that comes with the kit. AMA mechanic guy (I never got his name) said that it was putting too much pressure on the head bearings.

Lorne agreed to replace the bearings and get a new silver thingie. So instead of this:
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It should look like this:
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Cruzman is certain that collar doesn't hold any weight. I agree but it does add width or space to the setup and will likely take up the room that's needed to get the screws properly tight. I think Lorne thought it was apart of the roller bearing seal kit because the cap for it and the cover were stuck together. Either way, it's getting fixed along with the leaking left (when sitting on the bike) fork seal that developed during the trip.

I also got the extensions off. Lorne is going to change my front tire for free as well and will help me get the extensions measured to get cut down if it's still needed when I install the gen2 upper triple.

I didn't think doing the final touches would take me this long. I guess the delay was for the best considering what's happened.
 
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Values for those must be really low now. :jaw drop:

Not fixed yet, waiting on the collar piece from Yamaha. I was hoping it'd get done before the weekend but no call about the parts being in. I did get the tire in though. :yes:
 
I'm thinking I wouldn't trust that particular mechanic. If he assembled the triple and tested the head the old fashion way, he'd have felt the sloppiness and knew it was wrong but instead let you ride off with an incomplete job. That isn't acceptable. Of course the collar is supposed to put pressure on the bearings. Once set/seated, the head is tested for free-steering and everything is torqued to spec. That initial nut is never supposed to be Hulk-tightened but only once to seat the bearings then backed off for free steering side to side. Only the next nut is torqued afterward. That guy has no idea how to correctly assemble, seat and test a head bearing!

I'd kick him in the nads Patrice, but that is just me trying to be a PO'd woman! :D

Glad it is getting sorted out but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
 
It didn't feel sloppy when he first did it. I didn't notice any sloppiness until after I installed the extensions. Maybe me banging them in made the bearings seat better. I'd only be PO'd if he wouldn't fix the problem.

He's been really good about it plus I'm getting a free tire change out of it. I agree it shouldn't've happened in the first place (probably why Cruzman is so mad and confused that I'm giving him another shot at it). I do not believe Lorne would have let me take the bike if it was that way when it was first installed.
 
Talk me down...

****:cuss: Warning ****

I know some of you were :cuss: already when I posted the last screw up. At the time I figured, they're human they made a mistake and are willing to fix it. However after the most recent phone call I :surrender:. I called today to find out when they'd be finished with Baby. I dropped him off Saturday before last when I knew they were expecting parts to finish a big project. I did it so it'd be there if the parts didn't come in and they could get right on it or they could get right on it as soon as they finished the other project. OTC assured me they'd have it done by last Saturday.

Last Saturday passed with no call. :waiting: It turns out he didn't bother to measure the extensions for where they'd need to be cut and send them to the machine shop while they worked on their important project. It wouldn't take them that long to do that would it :confused: Instead they waited until Friday before even sending them to the Machine shop. Okay fine, I missed my ride. I accept that was a possibility. I should have got Daddy's bike and ridden Sunday anyway.

Today's phone call really got me :mad: and now has me :rant: One of my forks started leaking. Why? Well it appears the previous owner of the forks didn't remove them correctly so when OTC removed them correctly they didn't notice that the part at the top was fucked up and wouldn't hold together once they correctly re-installed them. Essentially the top part was free floating instead of how it should be. I asked if the other side was that way too and he said "The other side is fine." (my emphasis)

Does fine mean 1) Upon discovering the fucked side, I took the other side off to be certain it wasn't the same way and it's fine or 2)It's fine because it's not leaking.

Now your asking, "this is what finally pissed you off? Why this?"

Let me 'splain...no wait, let me sum up: You see I took the forks to a "professional" for them to inspect and make sure they were fully functional and straight. Lorne assured me he would inspect the forks thoroughly to make sure they were "good". If there were errors found they should have been addressed before the forks were ever installed.

This recent discovery tells me that when he took the damned things apart back in November (when the shop was eerily quiet and he was trolling the local forum for work), he didn't inspect all of the internals to make certain they were "good". He didn't keep his word.

Not putting the cover back on the neck = : oops:. Not keeping your word = :nono: and :Liar:. I don't want a :Liar: for a mechanic. I'm only using a mechanic for stuff I don't think I can or want do myself. Admittedly that's not a lot (I'll try it first) but still. I was going to use OTC for my valve check but not now.

What was it Pres Bush said?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A]Bush "Fool Me Once..." - YouTube[/ame]
 
Sorry to hear about the turn of events with your bike. It's truly sad when a shop doesn't do what it says it will. Nothing will lose customers faster than lying to them...

Hopefully they get it all sorted out so you can ride out of there and never have to look back...
 
A 7mm conundrum

The problem with the stem nut has to do with doing things the "right" way. OTC (Lorne) objected when he saw the pics of the steering stem pressed through the lower triple and pinned. He said, "I'm not doing it that way because I don't think it's safe." Sounded good to me. I thought he'd figured out an alternative that would allow the stem to be flush in the lower triple. He didn't.

Fast forward a few months after the bearings have fully seated and the missing collar has been replaced. He's still a "couple of threads" short. :banghead: The solution? I'm not sure. I think (dangerous considering where my thinking has gotten me now) they're going to press the stem out again and add threads. Apparently they can't turn down the bottom so the stem is the length it would be if it were pressed through and held with a pin.

Lorne promised to provide detailed pics of the solution and advised me to update the post on my blog. I will do that once I get the pics.

Oddly enough, despite the mistakes, I still like the guy. At this point, I believe I provided him with all of the information he needed to do the conversion making the changes he did. It states in the guide that the stem should protrude 7mm below the triple (but not why). Now we know why: so the nut will fit! So now our little experiment continues as he seeks to find a way to have the stem flush and all the threads needed to tighten that nut. I like the flush stem and undrilled lower so I hope the solution retains that.

My concern now is that the extensions have been trimmed based on the way everything fit together before we discovered this 7mm problem. Once that's fixed will the extensions be right? With my luck...no. :banghead: They'll be powdered black though. :tup:

Oh about the forks: he ordered the wrong part. He thought I had 04-06 forks not the 02-03 ones. : oops: He thinks he can get the machinist to make the part so he doesn't have to wait to get a replacement from Yamaha. I won't know anything more until tomorrow morning.

Cruzman keeps reminding me this is an "experimental" mod and these kinds of problems are bound to happen. Umm Okay. :bs2: There's a detailed guide that everyone else followed and didn't have these problems.

:cry:

These kinds of things are bound to happen. These kinds of things are bound to happen. These kinds of things are bound to happen. These kinds of things are bound to happen. These kinds of things are bound to happen. These kinds of things are bound to happen. These kinds of things are bound to happen. These kinds of things are bound to happen. These kinds...
 
i diddnt like the pinned stem option either so i turned down the stem on the lathe -2mm and made a top hat bush +3mm this i welded into the stem welded on the inside
this means when the top nut pulls down it pulls against a very solid top hat bush
 
I got my bike back! Will post pics after I give him a bath tomorrow.

They did something like what Devilsyam said. They turned down the stem then added the threads. My Justy spacer is a little too short now but I got what I got for now. PC'd extensions look good too. Forks are nice and un-leaking. I'm happy for now.
 
I rolled him out of the garage for some updated pics yesterday afternoon when I got back from the dentist. I wasn't feeling well enough to do anything I'd planned on.

New front tire and Repaired fork...no more leaking! The other side remained dry so I hope that's the last of that.
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Extensions installed and powdered black. They are flush with the upper triple so I need to measure to see how it compares to stock other than the generic "lower". They are lower but not nearly as low as without extensions.
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On the sidestand it's a little more upright but nothing like without the risers
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Was able to use the lower VX800 risers with the gen2 FZ1 triple. Looks a lot more sporty than before.
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It's a little close but exactly what I wanted. I have room to raise the front end if I want. Where it sits now is as low as I'd want to go.
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They had to re-do the stem. That means pressing it out of the lower tree, turning it down 1/4" and extending the threads 1/8". It also meant the spacer shroud no longer completely covers the top bearing nut and the top of the stem hits the cap of the nut that holds on the top triple.
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I think I can avoid that by adding another spacer on top of the spacer shroud. I won't even go into details about the extra nicks and things I noticed where he wasn't particularly careful with his tools. :frown: He had them turn the inside of the extensions so they were easier to remove and re-powdered the lower tree to cover whatever marks were made during the stem re-do. I was waffling on my decision not to go back to them but after seeing the lack of care he took doing his work this time I'm now firm on not using them again no matter how much I like Lorne and want to support a local small business.

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Looking at the last pics, the front is :cry: for those Fren Tubo lines to complete the look. I guess I can finally call this mod done pending brake lines. It'll take a bit longer than I'd like due to the aforementioned visit to the dentist. I gotta use farkle money to get my teeths fixed. :doh2:
 
Here's a quick update after riding nearly 1,000 miles since this fix.

1. I must change the risers. The lower VX risers feel great short term but over the course of the weekend they are an issue. I'll use the stock gen1 risers even though they don't have the rounded bottom. I read on the other forum that they will work.

2. The tapered bearings seated again after their initial tightening. Cruzman and FastnFurious tightened them again at the Rally. They weren't able to get them all the way tight with a little bit of movement left only when stopping and that seemed to not happen every time. I rode another 600 or so miles after they were retightened and they haven't gotten any looser. Cruzman thinks a washer will remove any remaining slack.

3. With the extensions set so that the front end height is about 10mm lower than stock, the bike handles like it's on rails! I've been able to accelerate when coming out of a curve without upsetting the front end like happens with the OEM forks. Back to back tight curves are a lot easier to ride now!

I actually noticed #3 during my birthday ride but didn't really think about it until I was on this stretch of Hwy 28 and left Cruzman when I didn't think I was riding hard:
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It was at the end of the day after I was getting some confidence back. Later I rode the Dragon and noticed the same thing: the bike feels more stable under braking/acceleration than it ever did before.

As soon as I recover from having a couple of teeth pulled today, I hope to hit the twisty roads again. I need practice. :tup:
 
killer right up . I have a few questions , does the second gen upper triple clamp work with the r1 lower ? the reason i ask this is because there is a 1 degree difference from 2nd gen to r1 . Is the degree set in the trees or in the steering stem housing (head stock of frame) , or both ? Im new to the forum and love my first gen and I already have an 05 r1 front end to use .I was thinking of using the 1st gen upper triple and making extenders so i don't have to make all the stem spacers , can it be done ?any advice would be great . The plus is I can machine all my own front end pieces.P.s. glad you didn't do the whole pin thing thats the worst idea I have seen in a long time . :cheers:
 
I do not know. :( I was dumb enough to assume the stem would dictate that angle so once you put the gen1 stem in the r1 lower, you get the gen1 angle. Take that with the new fork dimensions, etc and you get new geometry.

I do know the gen2 upper works because some other test dummy tried it before this test dummy did. :D

My first hope was to go with the gen1 upper using extensions that fit over the r1 forks but I deferred to the wisdom of others on this matter. It has been done successfully--I posted a pic earlier in this thread--so I know it can be done. There is only one stem spacer that needs to be made (for the upper triple) but I can see the appeal of making one less thing.

My advice? :2cents: Since you can machine your own stuff, I'd go the gen1 upper with fork adapter/extensions. I'd make them so that you could keep the OEM FZ1 fork length or go as low as the r1 forks. I've found using the r1 forks without extensions makes the steering a little too quick for me but having the extensions with the forks too high makes the steering too slow. There's a happy spot somewhere between FZ1 OEM and R1 too damned low. :cloud9:

Good luck and I'd love to see how your's turns out.
 
thanks for the info , i did some measurements and it looks like the gen 1 upper will work .MORE MEASURING TO GO .it sucks when people can lead you down a road that is more complicated than others ,but it is the nature of mods .at least the end result in your case was good.
 
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