Question about Top Saddlery seat?

[RavenFZ1]

I received my Top Saddlery seats almost 2 months ago. While it allows me to ride a little bit longer than the stock seat before discomfort sets in... it just never has had the "sitting on a couch" comfort that people describe. I decided to pull the cover back to see where I might be able to add some foam to improve the comfort only to find a pretty big surprise... there is no gel to be seen anywhere.
I paid a good chunk of change extra to have a gel insert placed in the seat. Am I wrong in thinking there should be an actual "layer" of gel in the seat... or do they do some sort of magic where the gel blends into the foam to where you can't see it? Unless there is something I'm missing, I'm feeling pretty cheated by Top Saddlery right now and would hope that they will at least refund the extra money I paid for the gel.
I'm not posting this thread to bash Top Saddlery, I just want to make sure my suspicions are correct before I pursue having them make the situation "right".

 

[Hail]

Well I do not have one but maybe it would be easier if a few that have Top Saddelry Seats could post their builds and pricing you all could really compare apples to apples.

Bottom line is if you did not get what you paid you do not need us to tell you what you need to do.

 

[RavenFZ1]

Bottom line is if you did not get what you paid you do not need us to tell you what you need to do.

Exactly, that's why I'm trying to make sure I'm not just misunderstanding what the inside of a gel seat should look like before I pursue any action.

 

[RavenFZ1]

Update: I contacted Top Saddlery and sent pictures and they have agreed to refund the extra money I paid for the gel insert that was not installed. At least that explains why my seat was less comfortable than expected... without the gel insert there was maybe 1/4" of foam between the seatpan on the edges and my legs :doh2: I added about 1/2" of firm foam in the seat so I'll see how this does on my next ride. I would add even more foam but two things are limiting that, there is not enough slack in the seat cover to add more and I need to minimize the height added to the seat as I already can't flatfoot on this bike.

 

[Dai-Bach]

Well that's very, very, good of them to offer you your money back that you paid them for work not completed :jaw drop: If it were me in this situation I don't think I've have settled for that!! At the very least I would have expected them to have arranged to have the seats sent back to carry out the work originally paid for, and also the part refund as a gesture of goodwill/apology for trying to rip you off.

 

[RavenFZ1]

Well that's very, very, good of them to offer you your money back that you paid them for work not completed :jaw drop: If it were me in this situation I don't think I've have settled for that!! At the very least I would have expected them to have arranged to have the seats sent back to carry out the work originally paid for, and also the part refund as a gesture of goodwill/apology for trying to rip you off.

I originally considered asking them to take the seat back and add the gel, but the issue is that I no longer have a stock seat so even if they paid for return shipping I would have been without a front seat and unable to use my bike for over a month while the seat was in transit and being fixed. With that in mind I actually was the one to suggest to them to refund the difference paid for the gel insert. From the reviews of others and my previous experience on another bike with a gel seat, it may not have really suited me anyway. I've already added more padding to the inside of the seat myself, so a refund of the amount I paid for the gel is fine.
We can't really say if they were purposely trying to rip me off or if it was just a misunderstanding or oversight by the tech who assembled my seat. People make mistakes, as long as they are willing to admit it and make it right (which they did, and apologized for) it isn't worth stressing over, life goes on.
However, I will be watching my credit card to make sure they refund the charge in a timely manner and I will be a little less understanding if they "forget" to refund the charges.

 

[FZ1inTX]

It takes TS about 4 - 5 weeks to issue a refund. Been there....

So, you've found the problem, that it was missing the layer of gel and because of this, had too little foam. I cannot imagine that was comfortable!

Regarding the height, your bike can be lowered for very little money. Get a set of lowering links (dog bones) and get the rear lowered. Then, lower the front by raising the forks in the triples. It's a simple task with the right equipment. If it still isn't enough, there are plenty of boot manufacturers that make some thickly soled boots that will give the extra you need. How close to flatfoot are you reaching with both feet?

Hope this helps!

 

[RavenFZ1]

It takes TS about 4 - 5 weeks to issue a refund. Been there....

So, you've found the problem, that it was missing the layer of gel and because of this, had too little foam. I cannot imagine that was comfortable!

Regarding the height, your bike can be lowered for very little money. Get a set of lowering links (dog bones) and get the rear lowered. Then, lower the front by raising the forks in the triples. It's a simple task with the right equipment. If it still isn't enough, there are plenty of boot manufacturers that make some thickly soled boots that will give the extra you need. How close to flatfoot are you reaching with both feet?

Hope this helps!

Yup, now we know why I have not had that couch-like comfort from my TS seat! I was beginning to think I was just a whining about the pain too much. Had I known all of this would transpire I would have just ordered the seat standard without lowering or gel and lowered the bike to compensate, but hindsight is always 20/20. The only reason I haven't lowered it already is because of all the threads where people talk like it trashes your steering geometry and makes it handle worse and makes it a pain to put on the centerstand (which is how I like to park it in my garage). The threads about lowering always seem to turn into an argument about if you should not lower the front at all, lower it the same as the back, or lower it half as much as the back. At one time, Soupy's adjustable link appealed to me because I could lower it "just enough" to let me flat-foot, but after hearing a story or two of this link coming apart I think I'll pass. Is there a certain brand of lowering link that you would recommend or are they all pretty much the same?
I'm 5'9" with a 29" inseam, currently with my Icon riding boots (about 1" sole at most) I would guess I am 1-2" away from flatfooting... it certainly can make backing up a slight incline or trying to hold the bike up on uneven or wet surfaces a bit unnerving at times when you are on the balls of your feet or only have one foot flat on the ground.

 

[FZ1inTX]

I would go with the Epic links. Soupy's, or others like them that are adjustable, are problematic. The Epic links are solid and you can adjust by selecting the available holes.

If you lower the rear 1.5", I'd drop 1" on the front and test. You can go to 1.5" on the front but I think it would be too much. What you'll find is that the bike actually feels more stable to you with a lower center of gravity. You can then toy with handling/turn-in by adjusting the forks up or down by 3 - 4 mm at a time.

We lowered my wife's FZ6R 1.5" in the rear and 3/4" in the front. I rode it and the bike handled very well! She loves it now.

 

[RavenFZ1]

I would go with the Epic links. Soupy's, or others like them that are adjustable, are problematic. The Epic links are solid and you can adjust by selecting the available holes.

If you lower the rear 1.5", I'd drop 1" on the front and test. You can go to 1.5" on the front but I think it would be too much. What you'll find is that the bike actually feels more stable to you with a lower center of gravity. You can then toy with handling/turn-in by adjusting the forks up or down by 3 - 4 mm at a time.

We lowered my wife's FZ6R 1.5" in the rear and 3/4" in the front. I rode it and the bike handled very well! She loves it now.

You talked me into it! Lol. It's obvious I will never get the seat height I would prefer through any other modification so I ordered a 2" lowering link and adjustable kickstand from cycleoneoff.com. I assume raising the forks (lowering the front end) is as simple as loosening the clamps, sliding the forks up and retightening the clamps?

On a side note, the one thing I wish my fz had more like my friend's bandit is the seat. His stock seat height is only about 30" (vs 32" on the fz1), and the factory seat has a shimming system that allows you to raise/lower the seat as desired. On top of that, his factory seat is comfortable enough that he has done all day 1,000+ mile rides without sitting discomfort.

 

[FZ1inTX]

You talked me into it! Lol. It's obvious I will never get the seat height I would prefer through any other modification so I ordered a 2" lowering link and adjustable kickstand from cycleoneoff.com. I assume raising the forks (lowering the front end) is as simple as loosening the clamps, sliding the forks up and retightening the clamps?

Nice! So, yes, I would lower the front at least 1" and see how it feels and how well you can flatfoot. You can go up to another 1" but Start at 1" and then drop 3 - 4 mm per adjustment. You'll know by the feel of the steering at slow speeds if you're hitting a limit. The bike will feel like it wants to always corner. For the forks, put the bike on the center stand, grab a 1 gallon paint can and while pushing down on the rear of the bike, slide it under the header pipes. Then put some blocking under the front tire so it cannot drop when you loosen the triple clamps. After loosening but not too much, you can then force them up the triples. It helps to have some thin wood pieces and a helper so they can slide "shims" under the tire to hold the position. Get one side up and tighten only the lower triple enough to hold it, then get the other side up and as close to exact as possible. tighten the lower on that one and measure both again. If you're good with the measurements, tighten all clamps to spec torque.

On a side note, the one thing I wish my fz had more like my friend's bandit is the seat. His stock seat height is only about 30" (vs 32" on the fz1), and the factory seat has a shimming system that allows you to raise/lower the seat as desired. On top of that, his factory seat is comfortable enough that he has done all day 1,000+ mile rides without sitting discomfort.

You can shave some of the foam from your seat then replace it with 1.5 times the thickness in a memory foam and re-staple. Some even sandwich a gel pad between the stock foam and the memory foam. This gives you some of the gel benefits without direct contact with the gel in extreme temperatures.

Hope this helps!!

 

[RavenFZ1]

Nice! So, yes, I would lower the front at least 1" and see how it feels and how well you can flatfoot. You can go up to another 1" but Start at 1" and then drop 3 - 4 mm per adjustment. You'll know by the feel of the steering at slow speeds if you're hitting a limit. The bike will feel like it wants to always corner. For the forks, put the bike on the center stand, grab a 1 gallon paint can and while pushing down on the rear of the bike, slide it under the header pipes. Then put some blocking under the front tire so it cannot drop when you loosen the triple clamps. After loosening but not too much, you can then force them up the triples. It helps to have some thin wood pieces and a helper so they can slide "shims" under the tire to hold the position. Get one side up and tighten only the lower triple enough to hold it, then get the other side up and as close to exact as possible. tighten the lower on that one and measure both again. If you're good with the measurements, tighten all clamps to spec torque.



You can shave some of the foam from your seat then replace it with 1.5 times the thickness in a memory foam and re-staple. Some even sandwich a gel pad between the stock foam and the memory foam. This gives you some of the gel benefits without direct contact with the gel in extreme temperatures.

Hope this helps!!

Thanks for the information, I look forward to making the changes! I'll try to remember to post some pictures after it's all done.