Open / Close loop mode...

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Redintegrale

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Hello

Can anyone please explain to me under which condition 'CLOSE LOOP' mode works on FZ1.
If I understand correctly in this mode ECU uses the O2 sensor, but I don't know at what temperature range and throttle position (is there any other thing that effect on this mode).
I'm interested because of the use of PC3 because some disconnects the O2 sensor and some don't,... some uses O2 eliminator – what does this thing do?
All other conditions use 'OPEN LOOP' mode and ECU ignores the O2 values and then uses the PC3 valus, is this correct?

Thanks,
Rok
 
The O2 sensor is active anytime it is hot enough (most operate at 600+ degrees), but the computer only uses this information in the closed loop mode. Closed loop is the operating mode where all engine control sensors including the Oxygen sensor are used to get best fuel economy, lowest emissions, and good power. On the FZ1, I believe this is also controlled by the ECU (or ignored if you will) under a certain RPM range regardless of temperature. Closed loop mode, when the O2 sensor input is used by the ECU, happens above a certain RPM and when the temperature limit is satisfied.

From their web site:

DynoJet said:
All Models
My Power Commander came with O2 eliminators, should I use these and what are they?
On bikes that use an O2 sensor in the stock exhaust have a closed loop area that can not be adjusted by the Power Commander alone. If you make adjustments with the PCIII in the closed loop area the O2 sensor will sense these changes and the ECM will alter the fuel curve accordingly. If you want to have full fuel control over the entire RPM range of your bike then you will need to bypass the closed loop area which the O2 eliminators will accomplish. If you are looking for the best fuel economy and not worried about making changed to the closed loop area you can leave the stock O2 sensors connected and still make changes outside of the closed loop area with the Power Commander.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, I understand that, but the problem is that some disconnects the sensor, others uses the O2 eliminator, but I didn't get any with PC3 and in their instructions there is also nothing about disconecting the O2 sensor...that is why I'm a bit confused.
 
On the FZ6 closed loop is from about 0 to 6,000 rpm, and about 0 to 40% throttle position. This is off the top of my head, I could be off by a bit. Outside of those parameters the system is "off" the O2 sensor and runs open loop. It is safe to assume the FZ1 is similar. If you unplug your O2 sensor you will run open loop across the entire range. :tup:

If you are running the PCIII just unplug the wire from the O2 sensor that runs to the main harness.
 
Continuation on the subject...
My bike is flashed by ecunleashed, apparently with the o2 sensor still active according to them. The flash also has fuel changes in it for my mods (airbox, filter, decat, slipon) I have rough idle that mostly appear when it is warm. When putting the db-killer in it is fine.

So, what would happen if I simply put an o2 eliminator in the bike?
 
As said you can just unplug the o2 sensor as it dosnt seem to throw a code , I've used an eliminator just to be on the air of caution, , if you just unplug the sensor without pc the bike does run better low down but is very rich and uses lots more fuel , .
I'm currently running with O2 disconnected, pc3 set up as Ivan's map suggest (open/closed points etc ) and std exhaust , bike runs sweet with good mpg too
 
Redintegrale said:
Hello

Can anyone please explain to me under which condition 'CLOSE LOOP' mode works on FZ1.
If I understand correctly in this mode ECU uses the O2 sensor, but I don't know at what temperature range and throttle position (is there any other thing that effect on this mode).
I'm interested because of the use of PC3 because some disconnects the O2 sensor and some don't,... some uses O2 eliminator – what does this thing do?
All other conditions use 'OPEN LOOP' mode and ECU ignores the O2 values and then uses the PC3 valus, is this correct?

Thanks,
Rok
Click to expand...

The problem with this bike, is the ECU Maps used by Denso.
It's unlike any normal tuning strategy they use.
From factory the bike uses Air Density to control the closed loop 2% to 18% throttle position in the form of the IMAP(intake mass air pressure sensor) and the o2 sensor.(This is where our throttle snatch issue is)
Even if you disconnect the o2 sensor and run a o2 eliminator, the ECU will still be using the IMAP to control 2% to 18% throttle.
Under different load conditions at these throttle openings the bike adjusts it fuel and spark maps accordingly via IMAP
You cannot get around this. Even if you use a PowerCommander, the ECU will always fight the PowerCommander in the closed loop 2% to 18% throttle.
If and when you have your ECU flashed, the tuner needs to get rid of the closed loop 2% to 18% and change to open loop.
Another very important step is, the tuner needs to change is the ECU strategy to Speed density (remember they are from facory air density)..
This way they ECU determines what needs to be done via TPS position and RPM
This is what the PowerCommander uses .



I've spent many dollars and many lost hours trying to fix the throttle snatch once and for all.
I tried various tuners who promised me a fix with their flash tune.
After spending close to $3000.00 Aussie dollars on time wasters and dyno's, I was ready to trade her in on something different.

But I couldn't let her go. This was her only fault.
I was told to speak to a Tuner in Western Australia.It was my last chance and you wouldn't believe it, he sorted it out and explained to me the above issue.

I now have no more throttle snatch but need to watch how quickly I turn the throttle as she will spin the rear tyre or lift the front without hesitation.

I actually enjoy riding her now.
I never really did before because of the throttle snatch.

And another upside of all this is that my fuel economy is now on average 5.7 l/100km. that's 1.14 litres for every 20km.
 
So, the bike should not get into any "problems" if I unlugged the o2 sensor and put an o2 eliminator in place even though it is ecu flashed with the o2 sensor still active? It will basically become a bit richer in the former closed area than with the o2 sensor active? The rest of the area, the open loop wont be affected at all?

And like I said, my bike has a flashed ecu from ecunleashed with fuel corrections in it for the mods I have (airbox, slipon, decat). That area where the o2 sensor operate, does that area have fuel map corrections for situations where the o2 sensor is deactivated, or will the bike run some sort of fuel map from standard ecu setting? Hope you know what I mean...

(I have asked ecunleashed about these questions, but the people answering dont seem to know that much..)
 
Mandelmassa said:
So, the bike should not get into any "problems" if I unlugged the o2 sensor and put an o2 eliminator in place even though it is ecu flashed with the o2 sensor still active? It will basically become a bit richer in the former closed area than with the o2 sensor active? The rest of the area, the open loop wont be affected at all?

And like I said, my bike has a flashed ecu from ecunleashed with fuel corrections in it for the mods I have (airbox, slipon, decat). That area where the o2 sensor operate, does that area have fuel map corrections for situations where the o2 sensor is deactivated, or will the bike run some sort of fuel map from standard ecu setting? Hope you know what I mean...

(I have asked ecunleashed about these questions, but the people answering dont seem to know that much..)
Click to expand...

You still have closed loop active. ECU is still using IMAP(Intake mass air pressure sensor) to calculate closed loop mixtures.The O2 eliminator is fighting the ECU in this area.
I have been through this before and wasted money.ECU unleashed cannot provide you with correct map as every bike is different. You need Power Commander to fine tune everything.
 
falcon_6 said:
You still have closed loop active. ECU is still using IMAP(Intake mass air pressure sensor) to calculate closed loop mixtures.The O2 eliminator is fighting the ECU in this area.
I have been through this before and wasted money.ECU unleashed cannot provide you with correct map as every bike is different. You need Power Commander to fine tune everything.
Click to expand...

Ok, that sucks. I thought that might make it more stable at idle going that way, if it now really is the o2 sensor that is the issue. Thats the question...

I do have a pc3 laying at home and I am thinking if doing a proper dyno tune with it, but in that case I want to be absolutely sure that it also cures the rough jumping idle.

I did have a airbox that did not fit entirely correct before due to the bad fitment of an k&n filter. I have changed this to DNA now, and solved that possible leak. But if this does not solve the idle issue (havent been able to ride it since due to Swedish Winter), I really cant think of anything more than it is the o2 sensor somehow behind this (possible bad o2 sensor? When I gutted the cat maybe it got hurt when the I started the bike up to spit out all the material?) Could really ecunleashed fuelmapping be so bad that it causes this?

Bad coils, tps sensor issue, spark plugs, nothing of that makes any sense since the idle issue started the very moment it was ecu flashed. Also since it goes fine with the db-killer in... (and no, I dont want to ride with it in :) )
 
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