Low End Power

Adrenaline Junkie

Adrenaline Junkie

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I have been looking for a couple of weeks now and can't find anything to make SIGNIFICANT improvements in the low end torque of the Gen II engine. Sure I can find ECUs, FCEs, Air Box mods, Ignition Modules and all manner of exhaust but the increase in low end torque is minimal. I was hoping to find torquer cams or a big bore kit or, better yet, a stroker kit. But I found nothing. I can understand that a big bore or stroker kit just will not fit withing the confines of the FZ1 block, but I find it hard to believe that no one can build a camshaft with more lift and less duration or overlap or whatever it takes to gain low end torque. I'd give up 20HP at 12,000 RPM to gain 20ft-lbs at 3000 RPM. Does anybody know where to find what I'm looking for? I'm pretty sure a 1250 Bandit engine won't just "bolt-in" to my FZ chassis and I dearly love this chassis.

Why? Two weeks ago I rode my buddies Triumph 1050 Tiger and I have had torque envy ever since.

Roy
 
Adrenaline Junkie said:
I have been looking for a couple of weeks now and can't find anything to make SIGNIFICANT improvements in the low end torque of the Gen II engine. Sure I can find ECUs, FCEs, Air Box mods, Ignition Modules and all manner of exhaust but the increase in low end torque is minimal. I was hoping to find torquer cams or a big bore kit or, better yet, a stroker kit. But I found nothing. I can understand that a big bore or stroker kit just will not fit withing the confines of the FZ1 block, but I find it hard to believe that no one can build a camshaft with more lift and less duration or overlap or whatever it takes to gain low end torque. I'd give up 20HP at 12,000 RPM to gain 20ft-lbs at 3000 RPM. Does anybody know where to find what I'm looking for? I'm pretty sure a 1250 Bandit engine won't just "bolt-in" to my FZ chassis and I dearly love this chassis.

Why? Two weeks ago I rode my buddies Triumph 1050 Tiger and I have had torque envy ever since.

Roy
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What front sprocket are you running? If your still "stock" just throw in a 16T front sprocket and enjoy a nice dose of low end power. The best thing is it will only cost you about 27 dollars!
 
While that would help acceleration from a standing start it would also have me pulling more RPM on the interstate. I'd like to put on a larger front sprocket and reduce RPM on the interstate.....but that will require a lot more low end power. Oh well.:ugh:

Roy
 
Adrenaline Junkie said:
While that would help acceleration from a standing start it would also have me pulling more RPM on the interstate. I'd like to put on a larger front sprocket and reduce RPM on the interstate.....but that will require a lot more low end power. Oh well.:ugh:

Roy
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From what I hear about guys running a 16 Tooth front, you don't gain that much more rpm's on the highway. The 17 Tooth is about as big as you can go without intefering with the gear case. For that price, you could always try it, and if you don't like it, remove and sell the 16T for not much of a loss.
 
If I could find a twin or a tripple in a FZ1 chassis I would. Since I can't, I'd just like to buy a set of cam shafts to improve torque. I don't think it seems that unreasonable.
 
I dont know if you are going to find a torque grind camshaft but you could use a R1 head gasket(its thinner). It should give you some extra torque how much is debatable until you dyno it. A full 4-2-1 system will also help. I dont think you will ever get bandit torque curve out of this engine but then again a bandit wont have FZ1 HP and handling.
 
Unfortunately for you, the nature of the FZ1 and R1 5 valve motor is that of a rev happy engine and no amount of fiddling is going to change the fact that it is designed to make the majority of it's horsepower high up in the rev range.

Even with R1 cams, it will still make most of it's power up top.
The best you can hope for is improving the midrange with all the common mods.

Short of fitting a turbo or supercharger kit, I can't see you improving the bottom end too much.
 
Not to be rude but it's an I4 based on an R1, it isn't going to happen.

I think you answered your own question in your first post.

V4s are nice too. Best of both worlds.
 
ballmead said:
Unfortunately for you, the nature of the FZ1 and R1 5 valve motor is that of a rev happy engine and no amount of fiddling is going to change the fact that it is designed to make the majority of it's horsepower high up in the rev range.

Even with R1 cams, it will still make most of it's power up top.
The best you can hope for is improving the midrange with all the common mods.

Short of fitting a turbo or supercharger kit, I can't see you improving the bottom end too much.
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That is about what I had concluded I was just hoping someone could point me to some custom grind cam out their that I haven't been able to find but I guess it doesn't exist.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

Roy
 
How much of a "hands on" mechanic are you? From what you explain all you need to do is dial your cams a bit. You don't need much to make a huge difference! I had to fine tune my FZ6 cams into my FZ6R (Degree) and on my cycle 0.012" as equal 3 degrees on the timing. I started with 101* of Intake Lobe Center. I was pulling like a diesel on the bottom end, to a point it was almost pulling like a V-twin. I didn't like it, I like the characteristic of a inline 4... smooth on the bottom and screaming on top! So I end up with a 104* Intake lobe center. I won't mess with the exhaust side...

Do you have a PCV? You will be amaze how much you can gain with just a good tune... especially in the mid range. But things might be a little different on the FZ1...

One more thing. The good thing about this one is the cost. $0! Unless you don't know what your doing... But pulling the cam gear out, slotting it with a drimell/stone (make sure you buff off the bur) and putting everything together... not that hard. You need to advance the intake cam by the way (slot the right way) That would move the power band in the lower rev, increase the "cranking compression" and increase lower end torque. Just what you're looking for.
 
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I'm pretty good at most mechanic work but I have never degreed a cam. Sounds like it might be time to learn. I know I can set things up so that I can get back to original if I don't like the results I get. I think I'll order Holeshot's DVD on how to degree a cam.

Thanks,

Roy
 
Adrenaline Junkie said:
I'm pretty good at most mechanic work but I have never degreed a cam. Sounds like it might be time to learn. I know I can set things up so that I can get back to original if I don't like the results I get. I think I'll order Holeshot's DVD on how to degree a cam.

Thanks,

Roy
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I have a degree wheel set up on a 12mm socket... kind of not the thing you want to use to work on the space shuttle... lol But it work. Let me know if you want to borrow it. But if you measure the distance between the cam bolts... you can do the math. Don't forget!!!! 1 degree on the cam is 2 degree on the crank! So if you give 1 degree on the cam, its 2 degree you will measure at the crank...
 
I feel your pain, man.

I fell in love with the Hinckley triple the first time I rode one. The smoothness, the linear powerband, the sound.. so nice. In my case it was a Tiger 800. At the time I was riding a Kawasaki Versys and the Tiger was the same style but better in every way. I could never get over the hefty price tag, though. Thought I could afford a Street Triple but the ergos were not commuter friendly at all.

A while later I demo'd an FZ8 and it was a revelation... ergonomically everything just fell into place. My body relaxed, I could focus on working with the bike rather than against it. With its identical ergos (excepting the handlebars) but a much cheaper street price the FZ1 was the first bike I had to have, and at the time I couldn't imagine wanting anything more.

Lately I've been getting frustrated with the fuel range, and I know what you mean about low end power... it does not deliver the same excitement as the high end power. That being said, I have never found the low end power inadequate. Never did I feel like I'd lost anything from the Versys' 650cc twin. The one liter engine makes a lot of power even at idle. It's not easy to stall. And once you get past 5000 RPMs it just rips. I can't help myself... which is why my gas mileage sucks.

The thing you and I need to remember is that this engine was originally designed to do one thing: make big power on the racetrack. It's an oversquare four-cylinder. Try as you like, gas mileage and low RPM power will never be its forte. That being said, I was pleasantly surprised with the improvement from a slip-on alone. Make it a full system (fills in the midrange nicely), mod/delete the secondary flies, open up the intake, and tune the fuel/timing with a Power Commander... that triple will be nothing but a bitter memory.
 
Adrenaline Junkie said:
If I could find a twin or a tripple in a FZ1 chassis I would. Since I can't, I'd just like to buy a set of cam shafts to improve torque. I don't think it seems that unreasonable.
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Maybe a Z1000 or Ninja 1000 would suit you better ? The FZ1 is not only lacking in low-end/mid-range but its also amplified because of the tall first gear and the ratios overall. The Ninja/Z1000 not only has a stronger low-end but from all the reviews I've read Kawasaki got the gearing perfect.
I've done all the mods listed below, including a 16T sprocket and my FZ1 is still very weak below 5000rpm and doesn't really feel strong until after 7000rpm. I've learned to live with the weak bottom end and find the top end rush is thrilling. I've just learned to let her rev :) My last bike was a Hayabusa that made more torque @ 3500 rpm than the FZ1 does at peak. Had to change my riding style to suit. The Busa I always depended on the torque, with the FZ1 I've just learned to have it a gear or two lower , keeping the rpms over 6000 for good drive out of the corners.
 
Adrenaline Junkie said:
I'm pretty good at most mechanic work but I have never degreed a cam. Sounds like it might be time to learn. I know I can set things up so that I can get back to original if I don't like the results I get. I think I'll order Holeshot's DVD on how to degree a cam.
y
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Adrenaline Junkie said:
I'd give up 20HP at 12,000 RPM to gain 20ft-lbs at 3000 RPM.
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.........NEVER going to get an extra 20ft-lbs at 3000rpm from this motor.



I doubt your going to find the gain worth the effort. The FZ1 is never going to be a torque monster down low. Way to many things working against it.
The throttle-bodies are way to big ( 45m ) compared to 36-40mm for other bikes in the class. They are too big to be responsive down low ( stalling inlet air ) The short stroke 5valve motor is a a natural rever its gutless below 7000rpm and degreeing the cams can only shift the power so much.
Guess my point is even if you manage to get the power coming in 2000rpm lower..............its still going to be weak down low.

Stock cams and its making the best power from 7000rpm to redline.
Degreed and you MAY be able to get her to wake up a little at 5000-6000rpm but the FZ1 is still going to be weak down low.
Doubt the trade off will be worth the loss in the top end.

Big valves, big throttle-bodies, short stroke motor...........it's never going to make power at 3000 rpm............never :)

That R1 based motor needs to rev.
 
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super googan said:
Maybe a Z1000 or Ninja 1000 would suit you better ? The FZ1 is not only lacking in low-end/mid-range but its also amplified because of the tall first gear and the ratios overall. The Ninja/Z1000 not only has a stronger low-end but from all the reviews I've read Kawasaki got the gearing perfect.
I've done all the mods listed below, including a 16T sprocket and my FZ1 is still very weak below 5000rpm and doesn't really feel strong until after 7000rpm. I've learned to live with the weak bottom end and find the top end rush is thrilling. I've just learned to let her rev :) My last bike was a Hayabusa that made more torque @ 3500 rpm than the FZ1 does at peak. Had to change my riding style to suit. The Busa I always depended on the torque, with the FZ1 I've just learned to have it a gear or two lower , keeping the rpms over 6000 for good drive out of the corners.
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Yea, I've ridden the Z1000 and Ninja 1000 and my first thought was wow Kawi got the gearing and fueling just right. By the way to me the FZ1 with the 16T front sprocket feels like the Z1000 does factory stock as far as gearing. Although I think the Z1000 had a lower first gear.

I noticed that the FZ8 has a lower first gear than the FZ1 and would probably fit, but the engine pretty much has to be take apart to replace the gears.
 
Funny you should mention the Ninja. None of the 3 closest Kawisaki dealers to me even have one that I could go sit on. I know because I called them all this afternoon.

It doesn't really matter. The last thing I need is to trade motorcycles again and besides, Sargent doesn't make a back seat for the Ninja 1000 and the wife would NEVER go for that.

Looks like I'm just going to see how much I can do with the FZ1. Good thing I like modding it almost as much as riding it.

Roy
 
Ya im with ya...my '09 replaced an '00 Zrx1100 w / 50ft/lbs@ like 4500 rpm. I really dig the 9 to 12k action on the fz mill but damn that's adios license territory IN 1ST gear! As i weight in @ 135 lbs i can work around it for now, but when the stock chain's done so's the 15t front......
 
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