Hi Guys, For anyone interested I found this on an alternative website,
Dobeck V Power Commander.
I've been trying to gather info to make a choice on this for quite a while. I had another couple conversations with LRD and Dobeck yesterday and got some clarification. Believe whatever you want out of it, but I thought it was worth posting.
Dobeck founded DynoJet. For whatever reason they split and Dobeck started Dobeck. The PC built by DJ is a very early attempt at fuel injection control. Basically it castrates the stock ECU and sensors and replaces it with its own logic. The PC determines the injector pulse length by rpm and throttle position ONLY. In other words, all other sensors on your machine, i.e. intake pressure sensor & intake temp sensor are rendered useless. Your machine will no longer compensate for altitude changes. Since inception there have been few, if any, actual changes to the PC. DJ has added some cosmetic changes and LCD displays, communication interfaces, etc. AKA, the PC re-engineered your fuel delivery system and in the process dumbed it down but made it excitingly pretty. Yes, you have full adjustability and can dump more fuel in, but it's pretty crude. The PC can be optimized on a dyno to make a good pull in say 4th gear at particular ambient conditions. You move the machine or swap gears and you are no longer 'right'. It 'works' but it's not 'right'.
The Dobeck II box is, of course, an earlier version of the Dobeck III that is marketed by many 'private label' companies such as LRD, HMF, Two Brothers, and Trinity. The hardware is basically the same between the two generations. The Gen II version is not preferred and here's why: The engineer that programmed the Gen II is no longer with Dobeck and did not put sufficient notes in his lines of code to make tech support, changes, & modifications easy for his successor. Also, the fuel circuits on the Gen II box are not as 'independent' as the circuits on the Gen III box.
Now, onward to the Gen III. The Dobeck Gen III is not sold directly from Dobeck; it is marketed thru private labels only at this point. LRD and HMF are the only 2 that currently have one for the Grizz 700. Two Brothers will have theirs very shortly though. Basicly, the Gen III has new software w new code written in house @ Dobeck. The code is much easier to make changes to since the writer is there and the code is noted well. So the tech support is good if you have a problem. Private labels have an 'engineering' level of mapping where they can make changes to the Gen III boxes that the consumer is unable to access. They do this to help optimize the generic Gen III from Dobeck to their particular pipe. After that there's the consumer level of tuning w the LEDs we're all familiar with by now. (That being said, if you leave all settings 0, you run on the stock ECU's curve.) The Dobeck Gen III's claim to fame is twofold: #1 it utilizes (& doesn't interfere with) all the features made available by your stock ECU, #2 it is 'load sensing'.
#1: All the Dobeck box does is take in the injector signal from the ECU, lengthen it and send it back out. The 'amount of lengthening' depends on the map (in the Dobeck) at both the engineering and consumer levels. Since the stock ECU is utilized, all that research yami put into developing the stock curve is still used 100%. Your machine still automaticly chokes for cold starts and still is altitude compensating. Every feature is retained. The Dobeck merely adds fuel as specified over the stock signal. There's no way in my mind that this could ever hurt your ECU.
#2: This is the fuzzy part I'm still having a hard time grasping, but I'm prettymuch there. I specificly asked this question of the techs @ Dobeck and here's what I gathered. Since there is no actual sensor to determine load, it's derived from 'injector duty cycle'. I think what the Dobeck does is that it looks back over a short term history to see how much 'up time' and how much 'down time' there is on the injector. (The duty cycle.) If your injector is open all the time, this would be 100% duty cycle, or all it can do. So the Dobeck infers that if the duty cycle is say 30% then there must not be a lot of load on the machine. If the duty cycle is say 90%, it realizes there must be a great deal of load. How far it looks back and how good its averaging is?---who knows, you just have to trust their skills. It uses this info to better trim the fuel curve.
So, IMO, the Dobeck is by far the superior product. I don't think there's a clearer choice amongst competing products out there. The Dobeck is more advanced---more refinements, takes advantage of all the stock ECU's features (after all, they designed and made the machine to begin with), is easier to use, has more of a 'private label' following (this means a LOT to me---they trick out machines for a living and choose the Dobeck), is cheaper, and probably has more knowledgeable tech support (from the private label & Dobeck).
I also asked if Dobeck has a future in timing control on ATVs. They said yes, but not in the near future. AKA there's no reason to wait like so many KQ guys have done for the VDI. He said they're dabbling with the like in the auto world currently. Also, the tech said the Grizz's timing is not castrated like the KQ anyway and that Yami does a pretty fair job of giving you all the power available w the correct timing curves stock.
As an aside, for any KQ lurkers out there: the KQ's original ECU was much more potent than the current unit. When the early KQ's were brought in for the reverse gear recall, they were fitted w the denutted ECU in part to protect the weak gear design...
I am not looking to open a debate on this it is purley for information and provides explanations which are sometimes hard to find.
Cheers
Gazza