ECU Re-map at Hilltop Motorcycles

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Seabass

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Hi all!

Not sure where to post this so hope it's the right place!

Well to cut a long story short I have a 2006 FZ1 with the "annoying fuel snatch", and although some argue that it can be ridden around I just found it frustrating (I guess it's like when you find a scratch on the bodywork of your car that's hardly noticeable to everyone else but YOU KNOW IT'S THERE! And because you know it's there it sticks out like a sore thumb!)

I found this and this guy seems to sum up my feelings about the bike pretty much spot on:

ECUnleashed has delivered as promised | jeremy​blanchard | blahg

After googling relentlessly on how to fix the problem, and generally thinking "should I do this should I do that" (As there are so many different opinions on which is the best way to tune a bike) I was left confused, do I go down the PC route and custom map, or down the ECU re-map route (which apparently is a lot more flexible than a PC with regards to tuning, however the trade off with an ECU re-map is that you cannot take it off the bike and sell, like you can with a PC)

Any way :blahblah: so I came across a guy called Geoff at Hilltop via various forums (Even a member on here was talking about him, however unfortunately his last post was words to the effect of "I'm gonna get the re-map in the new year" and we have not heard anything from him since:

http://www.998cc.org/forum/uk/11548-ecu-remap.html

So I have called him today and booked a re-map for 2nd March, I spoke to him about my mods and lack of (for example my stock airbox), he has advised not to touch the airbox, leave as is, and just to remove the cat. When I voiced my concerns as to whether the "fuel snatch" will remain after the ECU re-map, he just laughed and said "I can assure you when you ride away you will be veeeerrrrry happy".

It will be interesting to see what the outcome is, Geoff seems like a really great bloke and according to various people on various forums knows his stuff, When speaking to him he said something about tuning Tommy Hills Yamaha in BSB, also worked on Kawasaki BSB's, so seems to know his stuff. this is their website:

hilltop motorcycles 01455 848522

Obviously once it's done I will update the thread!

I could have rambled on further, however just wanted you guys to get a picture of what I've been thinking about as of late, and what I am proposing to do mod-wise to my bike. If the bike perfoms even better and the fuel snatch isn't noticeable, the FZ1 is a keeper as it has the basis to do everything so so well, and even after 7 or so years after is release it is still a sexy beast! If I come away and find myself still disappointed with the bike, lets just say that sadly I won't be keeping her. Only time will tell! :waiting:
 
Sounds very interesting ,, I had trouble finding someone to do this when I was looking , wich was why I went down the road I did ,,
Do they have the bike in to dyno or can you just send the ecu in??
Any idea on cost ??
Im sure now I think about I spoke to these guys last year but claimed not to.be able to do the fz1 at the time !! Typical now I just sold my 06 spare ecu .
Keep us up to date
 
Hey delbert! I will certainly keep you updated, I did enquire about getting a virgin state ECU from MotoMatrix, where they can supply an ECU with a later map, and once plugged into my bike and turned on for the first time with the red master key, it's coded to my bike, the guy was helpful and said that this would be more cost effective than a whole lockset, and said it would cost £180 to do this. I think you got yours at a very good price, especially when looking at what's on offer at the mo, looking at £450 or so!

Which is another reason for getting the re-map at Hilltop, as he charges £360, which sounds like a lot, however I feel it's a good price when you consider his expertise, and the fact he will map the bike for the mods it has. He sounded very confident that he could get the bike running considerably better than any of the revised maps Yamaha have subsequently put on the later model FZ1's. It all sounds very promising and I am looking forward to seeing what this bike is actually capable of once it's been mapped properly/restrictions removed etc.

I just need to ask him, as I forgot when speaking to him yesterday, whether I will still need the Ivans FCE, as if I don't I will remove and sell it on, getting back at least a little of the cost of going down the ECU re-map route.

Fingers crossed!
 
FCE for sale

Had a reply from Geoff at Hilltop regarding the FCE, he has said I won't be needing it, therefore I will be selling it, I'm gonna give first dibs to the FZ1 Forum members.

They are £169.49 ($268.49) to buy new, I am offering it for £100 GBP + £7 to cover postage costs (used Royal mail price finder to calculate cost) or $158 USD , and according to Royal Mail to send to the US via "International signed for small packets" comes to £15.73, which equates to as near as makes no difference $25.

So price in UK = £107 inc. postage

Price in USA = $183 inc. postage

Price and postage to any other country don't hesitate to get in touch.

Will post also in the "for sale" section if there is one. Payment via paypal, and will send item once funds have cleared into my bank account.

Cheers!
 
Yes I did, and it did make an improvement, the snatch was still there a little though. It made riding it far more enjoyable and a definite mid range kick up the ass!
Maybe if I were to go down the PC route and get it custom mapped, as well as the other popular mods to this bike (Lars airbox/flies etc) it would have made the bike perfect, I didn't have any other mods you see, other than an Arrow slip on 'zorst.

I have just decided to go down the ECU re-map route instead, and have heard very good things about Geoff at Hilltop, plus he ain't that far from me. Because of this according to him I no longer need the FCE, hence it is up for sale now. :)
 
Seabass said:
Yes I did, and it did make an improvement, the snatch was still there a little though. It made riding it far more enjoyable and a definite mid range kick up the ass!
Maybe if I were to go down the PC route and get it custom mapped, as well as the other popular mods to this bike (Lars airbox/flies etc) it would have made the bike perfect, I didn't have any other mods you see, other than an Arrow slip on 'zorst.

I have just decided to go down the ECU re-map route instead, and have heard very good things about Geoff at Hilltop, plus he ain't that far from me. Because of this according to him I no longer need the FCE, hence it is up for sale now. :)
Click to expand...
FCE's primary effect is to eliminate the fuel cut on deceleration. It also is reported (by Ivan) to open the secondary throttle plates more quickly. It does nothing to the stock fuel mapping which is much less than ideal, particularly once you add intake / exhaust mods. Had you installed the PCIII or V you should have been able to "find" the throttle performance you were after. . . .

Is your Hilltop fellow doing the actual remapping, changing the code to his liking or is he sending the stuff off to ECU unleashed? . . .The ECU unleashed ECUs that were "tested" a while back did not have the fuel cut eliminated as promised. The mapping was improved which probably improved the snatchiness of the throttle but the actual decel fuel cut had not been eliminated. All this may have been corrected since then but you may want to ask for more specifics about exactly what is being changed.
 
The ecu is a great way to tune. My buddys turbo busa thats makes 410rwh is completly tuned thru the ecu while it was on the dyno. He dont have a pc on the bike. that being said until they learn to tune the ecu with the bike on the dyno its just a guess on thier part.When i got my Holeshot pipe i bought the dobeck tuner from him because it came with his tune. His tune on my bike with the same mods at the time made my bike run like shit. I even lost time at the strip. It dont make sence to me to get the ecu tuned and then need a pc to fine tune it because they guessed on the ecu tune. I feel a fc eliminator and a pc tuned by a good tuner or a pc5 with auto tune will give the best results until they start tuneing the ecu on the dyno.
good luck.
I hope it all works out for you.
 
eurban said:
is he sending the stuff off to ECU unleashed? . . .The ECU unleashed ECUs that were "tested" a while back did not have the fuel cut eliminated as promised. The mapping was improved which probably improved the snatchiness of the throttle but the actual decel fuel cut had not been eliminated. All this may have been corrected since then but you may want to ask for more specifics about exactly what is being changed.
Click to expand...

I did read a bit about ECU unleashed, what I didn't really get was how they could improve things without testing on a dyno? I am not that mechanically minded, however I would have thought it would be a bit of a shot in the dark to re-map an ECU without some form of testing?

Any way here is my FCE:
 
Found this on another forum which seems to explain the differences between PC and ECU re-map at Hilltop pretty well:

"The PC3 is far simpler purely changing injector signals up and down based up relatively little info - for example it cannot tell the real throttle position.

The PC3 also is mapped in one gear, due to the flies on a stock bike behaving differently in each gear it will only be optimized for the gear it is mapped in (typically 4th) so will overfuel in 5th and top as the bike adds more fuel due to less restrictive flies and underfuel in 1st-3rd where the ECU is throwing in less fuel thinking the flies are in and still more closed.

With the stock ECU remap Hilltop can also alter timing (removing the retard in lower gears used to get trough fuel emmisions) and also map each cylinder individually as well as each gear.

Balancing across the cylinders makes the bike far smoother, mine vibrates a lot less now and the tickover is dead stable where with the PC3 fitted it used to hunt quite badly.

The bike also uses more than one map, a dynojet dyno is inertia based and has no brake, as well as meaning it is actually unable to measure true horsepower accurately (uses software to "work it out") it always triggers the acceleration map and cannot test / trim the steady state seperately.

Hilltops Dynapro can do both static and inertia tests, this means they can trim both the acceleration maps and static maps. It also means they can measure true RWHP. It also has simulated Ram-Air which is synchronised with the rollers, so as they are mapping each gear individually the bike is receiving far more realistic air feed and cooling."

Only time will tell whether it was the best money spent or a complete waste.
 
Seabass said:
Found this on another forum which seems to explain the differences between PC and ECU re-map at Hilltop pretty well:

"The PC3 is far simpler purely changing injector signals up and down based up relatively little info - for example it cannot tell the real throttle position.

The PC3 also is mapped in one gear, due to the flies on a stock bike behaving differently in each gear it will only be optimized for the gear it is mapped in (typically 4th) so will overfuel in 5th and top as the bike adds more fuel due to less restrictive flies and underfuel in 1st-3rd where the ECU is throwing in less fuel thinking the flies are in and still more closed.

With the stock ECU remap Hilltop can also alter timing (removing the retard in lower gears used to get trough fuel emmisions) and also map each cylinder individually as well as each gear.

Balancing across the cylinders makes the bike far smoother, mine vibrates a lot less now and the tickover is dead stable where with the PC3 fitted it used to hunt quite badly.

The bike also uses more than one map, a dynojet dyno is inertia based and has no brake, as well as meaning it is actually unable to measure true horsepower accurately (uses software to "work it out") it always triggers the acceleration map and cannot test / trim the steady state seperately.

Hilltops Dynapro can do both static and inertia tests, this means they can trim both the acceleration maps and static maps. It also means they can measure true RWHP. It also has simulated Ram-Air which is synchronised with the rollers, so as they are mapping each gear individually the bike is receiving far more realistic air feed and cooling."

Only time will tell whether it was the best money spent or a complete waste.
Click to expand...


While the above statement's are mostly true concerning the PCIII they dont all apply to the PCV.

" With gear position input connected the PCV is capable of allowing each cylinder to be mapped individually and for each gear (for example: on a 4 cylinder bike with a six speed transmission there could be up to 24 separate fuel tables). "

You CAN map each gear and cylinder independently with the PCV, all you need to do is make sure you hook up the gear position sensor. :cheers:
 
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Re-map

OK chaps I am just updating you with regards to the re-map at Hilltop..... That never was. :(
I never went through with it in the end, not because I didn't want to (believe me I was excited to see what the improvements would be) but because I got a good price for the bike from someone and the bike has sold.

HOWEVER, I do have another bike now..... And it's an FZ1!!!!!

This one is the same colour as my '06, has gold coloured wheels instead of black on the '06, has bits my '06 didn't have like a colour matched Ermax belly pan, MRA touring screen, LED indi's front and rear, front fender extener, and although my '06 had a very nice Arrow 'zorst, this '08 has a, in my opinion, better exhaust in that it's a Remus Hexacone in carbon! Looks and sounds ace!!!!
On top of that, even though the '06 was a low mileage bike with 7700 or so miles, this '08 has only 4300 miles!!!
And the cherry on the cake is that I only paid £250 more for it after selling the '06! I've been out on it a few times now and it's soooooooo much better on the throttle, no jerkiness when going from closed to part throttle, so much more confidence inspiring when cornering, not sure whether its a by product of the smoothness now but feels like there's more torque in the low/midrange (even though this has a standard 17 tooth front sprocket whereas on the '06 I changed to a 16 tooth front), so that's the reason I didn't go for the re-map!

No offence meant by the way for the owners of the '06, some may have rectified the throttle snatch issue or not even found it an issue at all, it was just a bugbear for me personally and sucked the enjoyment out of riding the '06.

Any way here are a few pics...

IMAG1741_zps7176c355.jpg

IMAG1738_zps799d4fec.jpg

IMAG1736_zpsd00caf11.jpg

IMAG1739_zpsb53bae1c.jpg

IMAG1744a_zps74013bc0.jpg

IMAG1743_zpsd54f99cb.jpg


Sorry the pics aren't the best quality (using my phone camera) will try and get some better pics when I can

In my view there is a definite positive difference in the way this '08 feels to ride, I did have an '08 FZ1-N in the past and could never remember any throttle issues, this confirms it, I'm sure I'll have plenty of fun miles on this bad boy!
 
Seabass
Nice looking. You've got the best color!

Can't say too much about your Gov't's billboard style license plate, though...

Nice to hear the fuel injection is so much improved in the later model for you! That is a big deal!
 
Just my luck ... was speaking to geoff from hilltop today about a remap on mine since its bogging down when pulling off after changing the end can.
Stumbled across this post and thought i'd struck gold! Reading all the replies only to find out you didn't have it done! :( haha

Lovely looking bike though mate!
 
Hello mate,

Yeah I know, to be honest I was looking forward to having it done, although when I had the opporunity to sell the 06 and get an 08 I couldn't pass it up!

I would never say never though and I may still get it done at some point in the future, the difference in my opinion between the 06 and 08 is night and day, although from reading various forum posts there are still plenty of gains to be had from a re-map, Geoff at Hilltop seems to know his stuff, so we shall see!

Do you think you will go for the re-map?

Thanks for the comment about the bike mate, she is a beauty! I shall look in the members bike gallery section of the forum and check yours out if you have uploaded any piccys ;)
 
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