Okay, here we go.
I agree that the R1 air box design is much better than the FZ1 air box. I disagree that a chopped up FZ1 air box is better than an OEM FZ1 air box.
The reason the R1 makes much more power than the FZ1 is not all in the air box, there are too many other differences. Yes ram air make a big difference over 85 mph, but that is not the whole story.
The R1 has different cams, different FI system, variable in take runners, higher compression, and a completely different exhaust system, 4:1:2.
But most importantly the programing of the ECU is much more complex and much more refined than the FZ1. The FZ1 ECU is pretty simple. If I recall correctly, (three whiskeys at this point
) The R1 ECU has over 240 FUEL maps alone!!! Simply amazing.
Back to the FZ1. The programming of the FZ1 is not very sophisticated because the variables of the motor are not as complex, FI system, variable stacks, etc, not the air box.
The biggest improvement one can make to the FZ1 is a flash. A flash, even with a stock air box and can is NIGHT and DAY from how the bike is delivered. Adding a can helps, but the ECU and be programmed to open the flapper valve all the time. As many people are finding out today with Ivan, several of us discovered this two years ago.
My comparison of "Race Replica's" (Super Sports) to Standards was generic, I thought that was self-evident, but you reinforced my point that they (SS's) have more engineering, more time, more money etc. spent on them in the developmental stage as well as the end product. They are better sorted overall from front to back and their whole intake and exhaust tract is well designed for “PEAK Performance” (with the over riding priority that it MUST meet EPA standards). My point was not the
specifics of why the SS's are head and shoulder above the “Standard” motorcycles, which have airbox designs that are, at best, "after-thought" or "just make it work and meet EPA spec" type designs.
I think you may have unintentionally
clouded the subject with some unrelated side tracks
, that, by-the-way, I believe are true and I agree with for the most part, but has no bearing on the original subject of modded vs stock airbox and it's ability to help an engine make horsepower. Sure an ECU reflash is awesome, I have no quam with that, I just don’t think that the reflash topic, or that the R1 having 240 maps, has anything to do with our airbox discussion??
The stock air box is good because it works with the whole package that Yamaha delivered. An FI system depends on pressure within the air box to trap the charge within the air box. Trapping is the most important aspect of an FI system.
Charge trapping is actually the effect of trapping or sqeezing just a little more air/fuel mixture (charge) into the combustion chamber just before the intake valves close, essentially “trapping” more “charge”. This is accomplished by an effect associated with the whole resonance airbox thing. Which saying “resonant airbox” is misleading really, since the actual resonance involves the whole intake tract from the pistons all the way through to the air intake port of the airbox (Regardless of Carb’ed or EFI). And as I stated before, depending on the designed RPM range, and your intentions, has a lot to do with whether cutting the box will help peak performance or not.
Remember that peak horsepower is not the whole story. Peak HP is only one measure. Most riders never use peak hp, whereas all riders need good/smooth throttle response that linear. Point being, a sweep test is only on point of reference/data.
This is why, in my previous post, I specifically typed "If your goal is peak horsepower". This discussion was never about using flux dynos or any other dyno techniques, or about midrange smoothness, etc. I will say that with the right MAP in my PCIII, my midrange is smooth and punchy with my hacked up airbox.
(off topic again and it gets cloudier!)
Most tuners use a sweep test, not a step test with a measurement of "flux." Flux is the difference between power pulses, and smoothness of cylinders. So in other words, is the motor operating smoothing, and powerfully.
So much of what make a bike fun to ride is how the throttle rolls on. Many of us on this site came from the FZ6. A fun bike with TERRIBLE throttle response, much worse than the FZ1; twist...wait...twist more...wait more..twist again as the bike begins to flop over because there is no more gyroscopic effect to pick the bike up out of a turn. Then WHAM (not the '80's band) the throttle hits.
I (actually my wife!) owned a 2007 FZ6 for a few years, just recently sold it to buy her a TRX400EX,,, and MOST (a large %) of the FZ6 forum guys are the types that think that Yamaha Engineers KNOW ALL and that there is NO WAY any normal human could improve upon what they have graciously designed for us lowly peabrains!! Hawgwarsh!!!
(And cloudier!)
With a stock air-box, a flash the FZ1 is a wonderful bike to ride. The mid-range is FAT, the roll on is strong, and hesitation of the throttle is gone.
That’s why I plan to get mine reflashed as soon as I can down my bike for a few days.
(Even Cloudier!!!)
Now to RC_1's point; yes the Tuono's air intake is wonderful, but that doesn't mean the FZ1 is bad. It's really not a bad air box. Before people jump up and down, take a look at 1970's and 1980's air boxes, they are terrible! The filter is paper, it's at the back of the bike, and is sucks in hot air all day, the FZ1 does not.
The FZ1 air box is at the front of the bike and the size is proportional to the FI system.
Is it perfect? Oh heck no! Is it terrible? Oh heck no!
Is the Tuono air box better than the FZ1? Oh heck yes! But it is two different bikes, so really, who cares.
The FZ1 is a wonderful bike with a flash.
My take, just me? Get a flash, get a pipe, and skip the rest. It's only an FZ1. If you want an R1, go buy one.
:Rockon: :icon_beer:
Cheers boys and girls!!!
Some of those are good points, and I agree with some of it, but still, these points are somewhat off topic and unrelated to the basic discussion. ,,, I mean, saying “The FZ1 is a wonderful bike with a flash”!! I won’t disagree,, but it's just not on the point.
The technical discussion is great. A lot of good points have been made,,, even that aftermarket shocks help the handling of the FZ1,,
,,, but:
Here’s the Bottom line for me, and I hope to get us back on track and add a silver lining to this cloudiness of our off topic topics: The Lar’s Airbox mod with aftermarket filter allows the FZ1 motor to make more power compared to stock!!
I don’t know Ivan personally but I have used his products and my dyno results (as well as numerous other people on this and various forums) support his well publicized dyno graph’s.
The bike used for both runs were identical except:
BLUE is stock airbox + stock filter
RED is Lars modded airbox + aftermarket filter
I don’t know the guys at Factory pro but they have no horse-in-the-race, so I see no reason for them to publicize fictional info about a FREE modification. Notice the GREEN line goes higher then the RED line!!
I don’t know the individual known as PK001 (In the other thread mentioned) but he seemed to support your side of the discussion, but even his graph didn’t show a loss. BTW: This is the ONLY actual dyno graph I have seen specifically for the FZ1 that shows little to no gains when comparing stock airbox to a modified one!
Whew!!! that was a long one, and yes I know,, I didn't sway you,, well, I'm not swayed either (LOL) but it has been kept civil unlike a lot of this type discussion. Good job!!
