2011 Super-Standards on the Dyno

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The August issue of the magazine features a super-standards comparison test, with the Kawasaki Ninja 1000 , Suzuki GSX1250FA and Yamaha FZ1.

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NightTrain said:
Mind going into more detail, if you have indeed rode one, I'd like to get some real feedback. Thanks.
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Well I recently rode both the Z1000 and the Ninja 1000. Both bikes are geared nicely and the fueling is spot on. Compared to the FZ1 they are less "peaky", with real useful power in the mid-range. I didn't get to really wring them out in the twisties, but the handling seemed no worse than the FZ1.
 
ballmead said:
Now if you had the bottom end of the Suzuki and the top end of the FZ1 you would have the perfect bike.
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A Haybusa will do that. Its a bit of a truck though . . . .
Actually, the fully modded FZ does about 65hp at 5k which is only slightly off the 1250. By 7k the modded FZ is well on top. Below 5k the big 1250 cranks, as it damn well should with less than 100 max hp from a 1250.
 
Uh, Ballmead was talking about the perfect bike right? What does it have to do with stock or modified?? And what did we go through already??
A bike is something you can own for $ Comparing what you can get for a given amount of money whether it is stock brand spanking new or used and upgraded seems pretty damn logical to me. . . .


PS: I guess Dustin removed his post. . . .
 
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I picked up the August 2011 issue of Sport Rider on the newstand today. As expected the FZ1 trailed the Kawasaki (86.3 pts) and Suzuki (82.7 pts), with 80.5 pts. No real surprises as the other two machines are much newer and up to date. I did find this interesting, "......during our stints around town and through the canyons, it became quickly evident that Yamaha has finally got the fuel injection figured out; not only is the throttle response quick, but there isn't as noticeable a flat spot in the lower rpm range". I did drive an '11 model a couple of months ago before I bought my '09 but I can't really remember any difference that stood out between the two. Has anybody else ridden a current model and compared it to the previous few years?

There was also a good article where they took a 2001 FZ1 (the actual bike they had tested 10 years ago) and refreshed and upgraded it with various bits and pieces (Arrow slip on, rebuilt forks, Ivan's jet kit, new brakes, chain, etc). They were quite satisfied with how it performed next to the current generation of Super Standards.
 
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I take magazines with a very large grain of salt. Is the '11 FZ1 throttle perfect? No. Is is terrible? No. It's a good B+ throttle. The FZ6 is a terrible throttle in comparison to the FZ1, even the '06 FZ1. Have the mags complained about the FZ6 throttle? Not that I recall. Did I take my new FZ6 back to the dealer because fuel cut was terrible? Yes. Did I think my '06 fuel cut was as bad as the FZ6, not even.

While I haven't ridden the various bikes back to back, I do own two ECUs, an '06 (univerally loathed), and a '10 from Europe (a pertty darn good ECU). The difference between the two is obvious.

How much better is the Kawi? Beats me. Do the mags like it better, I guess. Have mags been caught taking payouts from mfgs for good press (Arai, etc), yup. I have a feeling the '11 ECU is just fine for 99.99% of riders.

The above article talks about roll on and how good the Kawi is, I'm sure it is. But there is one bike not here yet, the new Tuono. I have a feeling it will stomp every standard out there. The footage I've seen is simply amazing. It's a true superbike with a standard riding position. The guys in Europe love it.
 
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NJFZ1 said:
Well I recently rode both the Z1000 and the Ninja 1000. Both bikes are geared nicely and the fueling is spot on. Compared to the FZ1 they are less "peaky", with real useful power in the mid-range. I didn't get to really wring them out in the twisties, but the handling seemed no worse than the FZ1.
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My 03 Zed had really good FI, even better after the PC3. It was carb-like for the most part. I've been struggling with the FZ1, the closed-to-open part of the fueling has been difficult to get use to. One thing that has really helped, though, was pulling the baffle from the Mivv pipe I have (no cat)... seems like it was making so much back pressure that it was hard to get a smooth throttle response, pulling it softened things up a bit and now going from closed-to-open throttle is better and less abrupt (hope this makes sense). I think I'm going to try modding the baffle a bit (if you have ever seen the Mivv baffle, it is super-restrictive in the way it's shaped) and see if I can get a compromise between a bit less sound without so much back-pressure.

I am thinking also that having someone dial in the TPS may help. Chances are the bike never got the right dialing in from techs and so the fueling is not perfect. I have heard this helps many bikes.

I like the all-black Ninja 1000. Just needs better pipes.
 
NightTrain said:
My 03 Zed had really good FI, even better after the PC3. It was carb-like for the most part. I've been struggling with the FZ1, the closed-to-open part of the fueling has been difficult to get use to. One thing that has really helped, though, was pulling the baffle from the Mivv pipe I have (no cat)... seems like it was making so much back pressure that it was hard to get a smooth throttle response, pulling it softened things up a bit and now going from closed-to-open throttle is better and less abrupt (hope this makes sense). I think I'm going to try modding the baffle a bit (if you have ever seen the Mivv baffle, it is super-restrictive in the way it's shaped) and see if I can get a compromise between a bit less sound without so much back-pressure.

I am thinking also that having someone dial in the TPS may help. Chances are the bike never got the right dialing in from techs and so the fueling is not perfect. I have heard this helps many bikes.

I like the all-black Ninja 1000. Just needs better pipes.
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What mods have you done to the FZ other than the pipe? Consider an FCE (fuel cut eliminator) from Ivan, smaller flies and a PCIII. "Closed to open" throttle issues are typically a result of the deceleration fuel cut off combined with the factory fueling and secondary throttle fly opening parameters. The FCE cures the throttle snatch. Another option in the works is a reflashed ECU which may solve many of the FZs issues in one shot. Waiting on the results of that one (see Hellgate's thread http://www.998cc.org/forum/gen-ii-tech/11514-fz1-ecu-tuning.html)

Overall, read up on this site and the other. The "closed to open" throttle issues on the GenII are well discussed as are the fixes.

I'm in Silver Spring, MD BTW riding a heavily modded 06. Wonderful throttle but it took some $.
 
eurban said:
What mods have you done to the FZ other than the pipe? Consider an FCE (fuel cut eliminator) from Ivan, smaller flies and a PCIII. "Closed to open" throttle issues are typically a result of the deceleration fuel cut off combined with the factory fueling and secondary throttle fly opening parameters. The FCE cures the throttle snatch. Another option in the works is a reflashed ECU which may solve many of the FZs issues in one shot. Waiting on the results of that one (see Hellgate's thread http://www.998cc.org/forum/gen-ii-tech/11514-fz1-ecu-tuning.html)

Overall, read up on this site and the other. The "closed to open" throttle issues on the GenII are well discussed as are the fixes.

I'm in Silver Spring, MD BTW riding a heavily modded 06. Wonderful throttle but it took some $.
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We may have to get up on a ride.... I have the areas just north of Balto pretty wired, but I'm looking for new areas. I have the FCE, hardwired in. Upper rpms are fine, it's down low that I don't like. I have the CD modded flies, open airbox/filter, Dobeck TFI for fueling (this has helped, though I am starting to think a PC3, with it's ability to add slight fuel even at closed throttle, may help more), de-cat, slip, ect. I really want a good tech to set the TPS for me. I will check the re-flash thread also. I know it's complaining in my part :disapproval: but I came fro Kawi, they just know how to make a FI system run well.

So yeah, maybe get a run in sometime? I need to slap on some new tires and I'm set.
 
Hellgate said:
I take magazines with a very large grain of salt. Is the '11 FZ1 throttle perfect? No. Is is terrible? No. It's a good B+ throttle. I have a feeling the '11 ECU is just fine for 99.99% of riders.
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I have found if you read the bike mags carefully you can come up with a pretty accurate appraisal of what the machine is like. If you distill MCN, Sport Rider, Motorcyclist and Cycle World in the US, along with a couple in the UK press you can come pretty close as to the good points and bad points. There have been some bikes I've stayed away from from what the tests show. It's way better than just reading the manufacturer's web site, but obviously not as good as test riding a machine which isn't always possible.

If the throttle is B+, good for 99.99% of riders I think most people would say 'problem solved'. Anything can be improved but sometimes it just isn't worth it unless you are fanatical about it.
 
Evitzee said:
I have found if you read the bike mags carefully you can come up with a pretty accurate appraisal of what the machine is like. If you distill MCN, Sport Rider, Motorcyclist and Cycle World in the US, along with a couple in the UK press you can come pretty close as to the good points and bad points. There have been some bikes I've stayed away from from what the tests show. It's way better than just reading the manufacturer's web site, but obviously not as good as test riding a machine which isn't always possible.

If the throttle is B+, good for 99.99% of riders I think most people would say 'problem solved'. Anything can be improved but sometimes it just isn't worth it unless you are fanatical about it.
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I find the UK based mags are more interesting, better photos, just more creative. However if there is a review I take with a grain of salt, it is from one of those magazines. The Brits latch onto certain bikes for whatever reason, and if they just decide they like a certain model, they tend to really glorify it (I hope no Brits take offense :), I'm half british myself).... I usually trust what Sportrider says for the most part, they are pretty critical of most everything and don't hide much. Just my humble opinion on mag reviews :nana:
 
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