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Intermittent stalling

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nathan8752

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Hello to all who are interested.

2003 FZ1 with Ivan's jet kit, 106,XXX miles (not a typo--it was a daily commuter for someone in San Diego before I got it.). I'm having a problem with intermittent stalling. Some research has led me to believe it's an intermittent failure within the emergency stop switch. I'm not getting a code from the self-diagnosis system, but I'm not entirely sure I'm doing what's necessary to interrogate it. I think I just need to turn the ignition switch to the ON position and leave it there; and if a fault is present, I should see my tach needle go to the appropriate RPM indication. My service manual says it should go to 9000 rpm in the case of an emergency stop switch fault. However, I suspect it may have cleared itself on the last leg of my last ride; meaning that an intermittent problem still exists, but it's not currently detectable by the self-diagnosis system. Anyone with insight around this, please chime in.

By the way, this is my 5th season with this magnificent machine, and Iove it. I find the power, performance, and utility of it to be spectacular. I own 5 other motorcycles, but if I could own only one, this would probably the one I would choose.

--NB
 
In 400K I’ve never had to use the tach sweep diagnostic, so I read through it. Your correct the code just comes up with key on whether engine is running or not. Now that I know how it works it will probably happen to me to me every ride now.

You say you’ve narrowed it down to emergency stop but you don’t say why. Did you see 9000 at some point. I’ve had engine cut (Twice) while riding a few hundred thousand miles ago.

What remedied my problem was filling the key slot with WD-40 and working key around. I’ve seen it work for others as well. The other related fix is to follow the wires coming out of the ignition (I think they head under the left fairing insert. Un-plug and clean terminals.

Unless previous owner was using the emergency stop to shut bike off all the time you wouldn't think that switch would fail. The ignition key is what gets all the work and occasional wetness from washing and rain. Especially when key slot “door" no longer seals it.

Does bike restart after sitting when this occurs?
 
FWIW. I remember my instructor from an MSF course I took like 20yrs ago said to always stop the bike with estop switch because it keeps it exercised. He said he never used to use it and started getting problems with the bike cutting out and it turned out to be corroded contacts in the switch.
 
A lot of times I use lowering the side stand to “kill” the engine so that I can leave both hands on the bar. Still have to use the key to make it official, which is true of the emergency switch as well.
 
Thanks to all who have jumped in on this.

The bike does start right up again after it stalls. I haven't yet paid attention enough to see if I'm losing all power, or just ignition.

To say that I've narrowed down anything would be a significant overstatement of the minimal troubleshooting I've done. I'm just trying to think about all the things in the bike's design that can kill ignition. The emergency stop switch is one of those that cannot be jiggled as easily to try to reproduce the fault; and I found a switch cheap on ebay already. It looks like there is some confusion about the names of a couple switches. For clarity, when I say "emergency stop switch", I'm talking about the "tip-over" switch under the seat. That's what Yamaha calls it. Yamaha calls the switch on the right handlebar the "engine stop switch". But Yamaha says to use the handlebar switch in case of emergency; thus the confusion. That's the thing that makes me wonder if I'm overworking the handlebar switch, because my normal practice has been to use that switch to shut down the engine when parking, like the MSF instructor above recommends. My impression from reading the owner's manual is that Yamaha would prefer I use the key switch to shut down the engine, and just leave the handlebar switch ON all the time, except in emergency.

It sounds like so far, everyone would approach this approximately how I am. But if anyone else has something, please chime in.
 
nathan8752 said:
My impression from reading the owner's manual is that Yamaha would prefer I use the key switch to shut down the engine, and just leave the handlebar switch ON all the time, except in emergency.
Click to expand...

That is how I mostly do it with mine. My 2003 has 138k miles on the clock and my stalling issues all have to do with Winter Blend Gas and colder temps. During the summer with Summer blend I never have any issues.
 
nathan8752 said:
Thanks to all who have jumped in on this.

The bike does start right up again after it stalls. I haven't yet paid attention enough to see if I'm losing all power, or just ignition.

To say that I've narrowed down anything would be a significant overstatement of the minimal troubleshooting I've done. I'm just trying to think about all the things in the bike's design that can kill ignition. The emergency stop switch is one of those that cannot be jiggled as easily to try to reproduce the fault; and I found a switch cheap on ebay already. It looks like there is some confusion about the names of a couple switches. For clarity, when I say "emergency stop switch", I'm talking about the "tip-over" switch under the seat. That's what Yamaha calls it. Yamaha calls the switch on the right handlebar the "engine stop switch". But Yamaha says to use the handlebar switch in case of emergency; thus the confusion. That's the thing that makes me wonder if I'm overworking the handlebar switch, because my normal practice has been to use that switch to shut down the engine when parking, like the MSF instructor above recommends. My impression from reading the owner's manual is that Yamaha would prefer I use the key switch to shut down the engine, and just leave the handlebar switch ON all the time, except in emergency.

It sounds like so far, everyone would approach this approximately how I am. But if anyone else has something, please chime in.
Click to expand...
Interesting with the nomenclature. Good to know. I really doubt you’re overworking it. Thats the only way I have shut all my bikes off in 30+ yrs. But could be just my experience. I have always used it as it’s called, “engine stop switch”. I also like hearing the fan run while I am taking my helmet and gloves off. I need to reread your post and see if anything else comes to mind. I’ll edit.

Edit: For reference you have not actually received a fault via the rpm needle? As of right now you just get a random stall? Let us know more info when you can. Specifically if the ignition secures as well from the stall.
 
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All,

I finally got back to troubleshooting this problem last weekend. I believe I found the smoking gun: a broken conductor inside the main battery feed wire to the main switch. It's red, about 14 guage. It rides in sheathing with 3 other wires that go to the "main" switch. (That's what Yamaha calls it; it's the key switch.) I was able to turn the problem on and off with jiggle testing. I had done jiggle testing before, but without success. I think it hadn't gotten bad enough yet. Anyway, to pinpoint the root cause, Yamaha routes this wiring with a zip tie very tightly holding the sheathed bundle to a steel loop on the switch body. That subjected the bundle to significant fatigue stress over time, right at the point where the bundle exits the tie wrap. Granted, it made it 106k miles plus, so maybe blaming Yamaha for design deficiency isn't appropriate. After finding that routing methodology, however, I do think it would do better with a much looser tie wrap, or possibly no tie wrap at all.

I love it that a couple of you fellows chiming in are also reporting somewhat extreme mileage on the clocks of your FZ's. Isleoman, are you saying you have racked up 400,000 miles on one FZ1? Or is that across multiple machines? And is your profile picture really showing me 275,001 miles on a 1st Gen FZ1?
 
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