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Handlebar wobble cause?

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SVandST

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I have a 2002 Yamaha FZ1 with about 45,000 miles. I have a wobble in the handlebars that is most severe at around 45 mph. It’s a back and forth movement like you get with a tank slapper, just not as bad. When I’m riding normally with both hands on the bar I barely notice it. But as soon as I take some weight off the bars or take my hands off completely it shakes pretty good. Any recommendations on what can be causing this and what to check for? I just had my forks completely redone by Traxxion so the forks are in good condition. I also put in new steering head bearings while the forks were at Traxxion. There is no difference in the wobble now compared to what it was before these changes. BTW, the redone forks with Axxion valves are so much better than before!
 
Welcome to the site. Nice investment in the fork mods.

Worn tires (scalloped)
Out of balance tires
mis aligned chain
rear shock, rear shock linkage bearings
 
SVandST said:
I have a 2002 Yamaha FZ1 with about 45,000 miles. I have a wobble in the handlebars that is most severe at around 45 mph. It’s a back and forth movement like you get with a tank slapper, just not as bad. When I’m riding normally with both hands on the bar I barely notice it. But as soon as I take some weight off the bars or take my hands off completely it shakes pretty good. Any recommendations on what can be causing this and what to check for? I just had my forks completely redone by Traxxion so the forks are in good condition. I also put in new steering head bearings while the forks were at Traxxion. There is no difference in the wobble now compared to what it was before these changes. BTW, the redone forks with Axxion valves are so much better than before!
Click to expand...
Check wheel bearings. With no weight on from grab tire and try and shake it perpendicular to bike. Should be no play.
 
I've been kicked off a couple forums for thoughts and replies on this. Sometimes folks get too heated on the subject about the same as oil or tires.
Simple and most direct answer that stirs people up, is just don't let go of the handlebars. But I also know it's a "thing" and we are free to ride how we want. It's a crazy hot topic usually on the FJR and other sport touring forums.
And seems the magical cure over there are the taper steering stem bearings.
I know of 4 Gen 1 bikes that have the same issue. 3 of the 4 have been checked top to bottom / front to back. New tires, new steering stem bearings, wheel bearings, alignment checked, etc. They still wabble once hands off the bars.
I worked for Yamaha for 11 years and had several conversations with engineers. Main point always made was motorcycles are designed with 3 points of contact. Bars, pegs and seat. So when 1 or more are removed, things gonna happen out of the ordinary. Doesn't matter what bike. Forks, frame, weight and bike geometry also plays a part.
Also discussed was that most folks lean back a bit once they let go of the bars, which puts more weight on the rear and lightens the front. Recipe for the wibble wobble.
Similar to the OP, a friend had a 2004 and after he had the forks re sprung, his began to shake once the let go. But once he also addressed the rear shock and it was sprung for his weight and both front and rear sag and such were set properly, his shake disappeared.

Hard one to actually pinpoint and you can chase things for ages and still have the shake. Or maybe change 1 thing and it makes it stop.
 
I get it and try to explain best I can with the experience in the industry and info from engineers and others with real world testing and throwing parts at bikes for people.
I've been riding on the street since 1987 and in all the bikes in those 40 ish years, only the XS1100 would shake and it was even with hands on the bars. Only help I could give it was a fork brace. Don't get me started on the V-Max.
Again, I'm an old fart and personally don't fancy letting go of the handlebars and that works for ME. I'll ride with one hand off the bar but never both.
Friends in our riding group love to set the cruise, lean back and ride hands free for miles. Some wobble, others don't.
 
Eff-Zed-1 said:
I've been kicked off a couple forums for thoughts and replies on this. Sometimes folks get too heated on the subject about the same as oil or tires.
Simple and most direct answer that stirs people up, is just don't let go of the handlebars. But I also know it's a "thing" and we are free to ride how we want. It's a crazy hot topic usually on the FJR and other sport touring forums.
And seems the magical cure over there are the taper steering stem bearings.
I know of 4 Gen 1 bikes that have the same issue. 3 of the 4 have been checked top to bottom / front to back. New tires, new steering stem bearings, wheel bearings, alignment checked, etc. They still wabble once hands off the bars.
I worked for Yamaha for 11 years and had several conversations with engineers. Main point always made was motorcycles are designed with 3 points of contact. Bars, pegs and seat. So when 1 or more are removed, things gonna happen out of the ordinary. Doesn't matter what bike. Forks, frame, weight and bike geometry also plays a part.
Also discussed was that most folks lean back a bit once they let go of the bars, which puts more weight on the rear and lightens the front. Recipe for the wibble wobble.
Similar to the OP, a friend had a 2004 and after he had the forks re sprung, his began to shake once the let go. But once he also addressed the rear shock and it was sprung for his weight and both front and rear sag and such were set properly, his shake disappeared.

Hard one to actually pinpoint and you can chase things for ages and still have the shake. Or maybe change 1 thing and it makes it stop.
Click to expand...
Your post made me think of a photo I saw on superbikeplanet.com years ago of Rossi's Yamaha MotoGP bike being worked on in the garage. Ball bearings in the steering head, not tapered bearings.
I have never had a problem with ball bearings in the steering head. On the other hand, I have had bikes with tapered bearings that worked okay but I could never really get adjusted properly.
My Gen1 still has the OEM ball bearings. No wobble or weave or wiggle, hands on or off the bars.
 
My 13 FJR has about 106,000 miles on it. Stock ball steering bearings. Loosened/ greased/ re-torqued at 50k and 100k. No issues. But again I never ride hands free. This can be a crazy hot topic on both FJR forums. Of course the FJR bike has many more dynamics applying versus our FZ1. Bodywork, saddlebags, weight and as Isle said, driveshaft and frame energy.
 
Figured out what it was. I change tires and balance the wheels in my garage. I use a simple static balancer. It took a lot of weights last time I replaced the front tire - 7 wheel weights. I put them all on the same side of the wheel. Today I pulled off 3 and put them on the other side and the vibration is much much better. Apparently it was dynamically out of balance because of all the weights being on only one side. I’m going to take my wheel to a local shop with a balancing machine to have them balance it. Hopefully that will take all the vibration away.

Years of racing and having tires changed at the track and being statically balanced I never had any issues. Maybe I did a poor job of balancing or maybe my street bike’s front wheel is significantly out of balance. Either way, I think I’ll have my tires balanced on a machine from now on.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
 
I would like to see where the shop places the weights compared to where you had them.

Is there a way you can make a mark on the rim or tire to compare?

Thanks.
Jim
 
jimco said:
I would like to see where the shop places the weights compared to where you had them.

Is there a way you can make a mark on the rim or tire to compare?

Thanks.
Jim
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing. I’ll take a picture or make some kind of mark so I can compare.
 
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