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Motorcycle economics 101

Ssky0078

Ssky0078

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I just read this article and thought it pretty interesting.

I find it amusing that most people tell me a motorcycle is cheaper than a car for transportation, and I'm finding out what little I save on gas is used up on other consumables like oil and tires. I could never imagine being an HD guy because after this reading article, I can see an HD as the worst financial decision for a motorcycle, ever.
http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/investment.htm
 
Apples to oranges. A Harley Davidson is a boutique brand. If you compare it to an economy car of the same price of course it will cost more to run than some generic Toyota Corolla or something.

That said, I can't think cheaper transportation for the money than a reliable, second hand motorbike. A used Ninja 250 for $3000 and $750 for some second hand gear & a new helmet is hard to beat compared to what can be had in a 4 wheeled commuter for that kind of money. It's just better :)

If you make the decision to ride around on an expensive litre bike, change your oil every 3000 miles and run tires that yield 3000 miles, that's not really comparable. A cheap commuter is not compatible with that sort of thinking.

But think of the performance you get for the money!
 
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Yeah, you did not buy a cheap fuel efficient commuter bike. You bought a super sport that you are carving up the canyons with and just happen to also commute on.

You could....
  • have gotten a much more fuel efficient bike at 600cc or under
  • have bought tires that run 18,000 - 10,000 miles and yes you can be very safe on such a tire
  • Baby the throttle and run a fuel efficient map or better yet not have modified the bike at all.
  • Run your tires at 38 - 40 PSI rather than canyon carving pressures and soften your suspension up to compensate.

These are all choices you have made. The same choice most of us have made. :)

Then again when you compared my old souped up FZ1 to my Ford F150 or even my V6 Mustang the FZ1 beats them by a mile even when I ran it heavy handed. So it is also a matter of perspective.
 
Why are they saying HDs are selling for more than MSRP? Thats false. Taxes and fees are the same with every bike. My Sportster got better gas mileage than both my FZ1s as well as my Raider. Hate Harleys if you want but BS articles do nothing. I hope the author doesn't claim to be an economist.
 
Fuel may be inexpensive, however tires and chains make it the same cost as a car.

HD's? They are the "subprime" of motorcycle world. In 2009 HD had about 25% of their loans default.

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T84A said:
Eh, their stock is performing.
Click to expand...

Depends on your timeframe.....in Dec 2006 the stock was $73/sh, now it is $60/sh (wipeout). If you held HOG for the last 10 years it went from $47 to $60.....not too hot. Of course if you bought it in the depths of the Recession in March 09 ($11/sh) you have done well, but most people were out of the market in that timeframe.....H-D had way too many subprime customers who lost their jobs and it almost swamped them. H-D cleaned that mess up and are back on track, it seems.

Back in the go-go days of H-D when supply was constricted (some of it artificial on the behalf of dealers) you could indeed own one for a couple of years and turn around and sell it for about the same price...a good deal. But those days are long gone. I suspect the real cost of owning an H-D is not inconsequential, but many still believe they are a 'storehouse of value'. That's clever marketing, and H-D itself, being a 'lifestyle' juggernaut, keeps that image alive at all costs. People keep buying so it works. You could never sell an automobile with that sort of technology, but H-D does.
 
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Hellgate said:
Fuel may be inexpensive, however tires and chains make it the same cost as a car.
Click to expand...

Perhaps if you don't follow the thought process Hail and I have expressed here but on a regular bike for a regular person, I don't buy it.

If you pick some horrific slush box like a Toyota Corolla and compare running costs to something like a Ninja 250, without even considering purchase price, you should come out on top.

Let's assume 20,000 miles a year

At 35 MPG mixed (realistic for a Corolla), you're spending $2500 a year on fuel @ $4.50 a gallon. For a 65 MPG Ninja 250, it's $1300. Even if you replace ALL the consumables once a year and change the oil every 5000 miles, the $1200 savings in fuel alone more than makes up the difference without even factoring maintenance on the Corolla.

Tires: $200 for a pair of BT-45
Brake pads & fluid: $80
DID chain & steel sprockets: $150
Air filter: $20
Oil change & filter x4: $120
Spark plugs: $20

The initial cost of purchasing a similar-age economy car is also much greater. If you bought a $3000 car to match a $3000 motorcycle, you'd probably end up with something not very nice

Plus, driving a car is horrendously dull. :thewave:
 
I really discount the fuel part of this. Here's my reason....

My bike gets 32 mpg +/- and my Tacoma averages about 15-17 mpg. I use my truck to get things done and commute on days when the bike is not an option due to weather.

The bike saves me money on fuel when I do ride it, but I always take longer routes to and from work. We often go for rides on the bikes for nothing but pure enjoyment so we end up burning all the saved fuel PLUS more just because we want to ride. I'll meet with other riders, burn more fuel...

I don't call up all my Tacoma friends and say, hey, let's go for a tour up in the White Mountains, or out to VT to hit 25, 17 and a few other roads.... There isn't any recreational riding in a truck because I don't off-road it either.

And I'm totally with Dustin. There isn't much fun at all in any sort of cage I can afford to drive.

And I agree with Hail... we didn't buy an efficient bike at all. This is a wicked fun and thirsty beeotch who likes to be rode hard. :tup:
 
T84A said:
Eh, their stock is performing.
Click to expand...

In '09 there was talk of them needing a bailout.

They wrote off a bunch of dept; eg: hosed creditors, and ratched it up on the franchise owers. In other words, buy repo's and new bikes or lose the franchise.

Then they sold MV Agusta, one year after they bought them, closed Buell, and outsourced a good chunk of production, and sourced parts to China.

Good for the shareholder, sure. "All American" hardly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
 
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Dustin said:
Perhaps if you don't follow the thought process Hail and I have expressed here but on a regular bike for a regular person, I don't buy it.

If you pick some horrific slush box like a Toyota Corolla and compare running costs to something like a Ninja 250, without even considering purchase price, you should come out on top.

Let's assume 20,000 miles a year

At 35 MPG mixed (realistic for a Corolla), you're spending $2500 a year on fuel @ $4.50 a gallon. For a 65 MPG Ninja 250, it's $1300. Even if you replace ALL the consumables once a year and change the oil every 5000 miles, the $1200 savings in fuel alone more than makes up the difference without even factoring maintenance on the Corolla.

Tires: $200 for a pair of BT-45
Brake pads & fluid: $80
DID chain & steel sprockets: $150
Air filter: $20
Oil change & filter x4: $120
Spark plugs: $20

The initial cost of purchasing a similar-age economy car is also much greater. If you bought a $3000 car to match a $3000 motorcycle, you'd probably end up with something not very nice

Plus, driving a car is horrendously dull. :thewave:
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I used to Commute in my 2004 STI, It requires premium grade gas, has 300hp and 300tq is a blast to drive and only gets 20mpg.

My FZ1 cost me $3000.00, runs regular 87, gets on average 44mpg and I got 11k out of my last rear tire.

For me it was a savings to switch to a bike when I am riding 60-70 miles per day to and from work.

On top of the fuel savings, I am saving about 5-6 hours a week off my commute, that time I can be home earlier and not have to deal with traffic..... well you cannot put a price on that.
 
Dustin said:
Perhaps if you don't follow the thought process Hail and I have expressed here but on a regular bike for a regular person, I don't buy it.

If you pick some horrific slush box like a Toyota Corolla and compare running costs to something like a Ninja 250, without even considering purchase price, you should come out on top.

Let's assume 20,000 miles a year

At 35 MPG mixed (realistic for a Corolla), you're spending $2500 a year on fuel @ $4.50 a gallon. For a 65 MPG Ninja 250, it's $1300. Even if you replace ALL the consumables once a year and change the oil every 5000 miles, the $1200 savings in fuel alone more than makes up the difference without even factoring maintenance on the Corolla.

Tires: $200 for a pair of BT-45
Brake pads & fluid: $80
DID chain & steel sprockets: $150
Air filter: $20
Oil change & filter x4: $120
Spark plugs: $20

The initial cost of purchasing a similar-age economy car is also much greater. If you bought a $3000 car to match a $3000 motorcycle, you'd probably end up with something not very nice

Plus, driving a car is horrendously dull. :thewave:
Click to expand...

It that is the argument, I see your Ninja 250 and raise you a GZ250; 75 to 80 mpg and rock hard tires.

But this is the FZ1 Forum. Comparing an FZ1 to a car is pretty much a draw.

My car is a second hand G37. Even at ~20 mpg it is cheaper to run that a bike.

The consumables on the car last much longer than the bike and are often less expensive; tires, oil, insurance, etc.

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I don't buy it or agree but I totally see where you're coming from.

In the end, it's still riding a bike which trumps pretty much any car. If I had to commute every day in a car I world probably drown myself in hot sauce instead, haha.
 
Dustin said:
In the end, it's still riding a bike which trumps pretty much any car. If I had to commute every day in a car I world probably drown myself in hot sauce instead, haha.
Click to expand...

This is site specific.....commuting in many big cities like Houston, Miami, New York, even LA, is a PITA in many instances. Traffic, congestion, heat, humidity, cold, rain, ice, payload capability can be a challenge. Personally, you couldn't pay me enough to commute on a bike in Houston during the summer months. Plus there is one aspect of the angle that nobody has mentioned, and that is SAFETY. As boring as many cars are they give you a great safety advantage over a bike in almost all instances. Next time you look at your family's picture stuck up in your cubicle keep that in mind.

Bikes are great weekend machines for fun and diversion but for most instances they aren't the ideal commuting vehicle. They can work for some but not for most people when everything is taken into consideration.
 
Hellgate said:
In '09 there was talk of them needing a bailout.

They wrote off a bunch of dept; eg: hosed creditors, and ratched it up on the franchise owers. In other words, buy repo's and new bikes or lose the franchise.

Then they sold MV Agusta, one year after they bought them, closed Buell, and outsourced a good chunk of production, and sourced parts to China.

Good for the shareholder, sure. "All American" hardly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

Harley wheels are made down the road from me here in Australia. The company was about to go bust but Harley bailed them out.
 
Evitzee said:
Bikes are great weekend machines for fun and diversion but for most instances they aren't the ideal commuting vehicle. They can work for some but not for most people when everything is taken into consideration.
Click to expand...

I'd say they are the ideal commuting machine as long as you accept the associated risk. The time savings are substantial, even where I live where there is no lane sharing and congestion is second only to Los Angeles and New York. Weather is only a hassle if you don't dress for it. Besides, a little inclement weather and discomfort helps remind you that you are alive and not just some mindless zombie

The benefits to mental health are massive. Look at your country full of aggro time bombs waiting in endless traffic in suffocating coffins on wheels. That does society no good.

I will say, it's quite amazing how safe modern cars really are. Absolutely amazing
 
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Since this is an fz forum and we are comparing... My fz is far more cost effective than my bmw roadster. Yes the bmw is a rocket on rails for a car. But I would still rather cut it up on fz anyday I am not stuck with a passenger.
 
Dustin said:
Besides, a little inclement weather and discomfort helps remind you that you are alive and not just some mindless zombie

The benefits to mental health are massive. Look at your country full of aggro time bombs waiting in endless traffic in suffocating coffins on wheels. That does society no good.
Click to expand...

I would have to agree, I love feeling the elements, I've felt more alive in the last 10 months on a motorcycle than in the past 5-6 years.

The mental health one made me LOL and if anybody has seen the movie Falling Down you've got the mental picture.

View attachment 15832
 
I'm steadily learning the ins and outs of motorcycling. I started on an Fz6, had it for 2,000 miles and crashed it. Never had to spend any money on it, but changed the oil and air filter just for the good feeling of knowing I did it.

I got the Fz1 and have learned the following.

1. Full synthetic oil: Mostly a feel good factor. I noticed the engine may run a little cooler for the first couple hundred miles, then it's back to the same pattern for heat up. The shifting is good up till about 4,000 miles and then gets a little clunky. Most I've ran is 5,000 miles and the last 1,000 miles didn't feel good shifting at all. Oil filter and 3 quarts of Full Synthetic Yamalube is $55 per oil change, at a year that would be $330. Oil changes in my car were $35 and I would only do them every 6-8,000 miles (I didn't like my car, so I didn't care). So let's say $105 on oil changes in the car.

2. Hypersport tires: Feel AMAZING. But they wear out in about 4,000 miles. I ride around 2,000 miles a month and spending $400 every couple of months sucks. I'm going back to Sport Touring tires to get 4-6 months out of a set from now and on. As I keep getting better I'm sure I can get more out of a sport touring tire and say I get 10k out of each set, that's 2 sets a year at $400 a pop or $800 for the year. I think my car tires were $135 a piece and I would get the 60,000 level/quality tire so new tires every 3 years at $550 plus discount tire insurance of $15 per for another $60

3. Chain and Sprocket: According to the guys at the shop they are only supposed to last 15,000 miles. At my current rate of riding that would be 3 chains in 2 years. I'm at 21,000 miles on the original and it's starting to go fast, get's loose after about a week after adjusting. I don't know where Dustin is getting Chain and Sprocket for $150 but I need to learn how to shop better. I went with OEM and it was $245 with my discount (the guy literally pulls up the dealer cost and he helps me out as much as he can to beat the internet sites). Going for aftermarket only would have saved me $20.

4. Air Filter is $20. I haven't got a K&N yet but I'm considering it considering it's every 24,000 miles or once a year for me to replace an air filter, especially with the dust in AZ.

5. Fuel Mileage. My car used to get 20 mpg. At 24,000 miles per year that would be about 1,200 gallons of gas at on average over the last year for cheap gas at $3.60 for about $4320. On the bike at an average of 32 mpg, that would be 750 gallons of gas for $2700. Basically I'm saving $1600 on gas for the year. I can see where Dustin is going with a bike that gets 45-50mpg or even a 60mpg that Hellgate suggested. I thought about getting an older R1 that gets 45 mpg, that would save another $700 a year on gas approximately.


So tires ($600), more frequent oil changes ($200), and chain and sprocket ($400) cost approximately: $1200 and save about $1600 on gas.

Sorry for the long type out, but actually I don't feel so bad anymore. I'm still a net positive.

As for the fun factor, there is nothing like it for transportation. I feel safer on a bike than I do in a car. I know I'm not protected like in a cage but if I ride smart, I feel good.
 
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