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Quite the eventful ride

When I think of Honda Rebel, I never think of twisties or handling. He was trying to keep pace and lost it. Maybe you should have stayed with him.
 
Dustin said:
Sky maybe didn't mean hanging off in the racing sense with a cheek off, knee out, face kissing the mirror; nothing that extreme.

In the case of senallttam's newbie friend, he may have suffered from the typical new rider 'stiff armed, crossed up, head down' riding technique. Had he perhaps simply leaned his body with the bike & turned his head deep into the turn, he may have had been able to confidently make it through the turn without incident.

I think some of you experienced guys forget what it's like to be a new rider. You suck at everything when you're new :)
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Thanks for posting the 'stiff armed, crossed up, head down' part of your comment. I had sorted out that stiff armed doesn't work well, crossed up doesn't work well, and was at the point of keeping head up and looking through corners. The keeping head up and looking through corners has always been an issue for me and it was a nice reminder for you to put that.
 
Crossed up and stiff arms doesn't matter one bit. How do you think Roberts, Rainey, Schwantz, etal won all those championships back in the day?

It is very simple; look at where you want to go, and lean the bike at the correct speed.

The man at Suzuka 2013.

View attachment 15625
 
Hellgate said:
Crossed up and stiff arms doesn't matter one bit. How do you think Roberts, Rainey, Schwantz, etal won all those championships back in the day?

It is very simple; look at where you want to go, and lean the bike at the correct speed.

The man at Suzuka 2013.

View attachment 15625
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I was having an issue a few months ago when I first started trying to go faster that I was pushing with a stiff arm on the inside, it was making the front tire plow throw the corner and I was going wide. Didn't feel good at all. But, when I loosened up the arm and used my body lean instead it got to be easier and I got better traction. Maybe there's a way the old pros that did it that made it work out better.
 
Hellgate said:
Crossed up and stiff arms doesn't matter one bit. How do you think Roberts, Rainey, Schwantz, etal won all those championships back in the day?
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A newbie with no experience is not a MotoGP rider on a MotoGP bike and this doesn't apply to him in the slightest.
 
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Clyde said:
I know I'm being picky here, but that translates into a crash 1 out of 1000 turns. I hope that there are a lot more nines tacked on there for most riders!
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That's in a turn that you go too hot in, not every turn! In a hundred mile ride you might go too hot into one turn, maybe, if you are on a new road and not reading the road correctly or just not paying attention, it happens to all of us. So on that basis you might crash once in 100,000 miles. I'll take those odds, thank you.

This isn't a scientific calculation, only to point out most riders give up half way through a turn, usually stand the bike up, and crash, where if they had stuck with it and leaned that baby over and had had confidence in their bike, the tires and themselves they would have easily made it.
 
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:noworries:

Sorry. I was feeling smarmy after my dogs woke me up at 5:30 AM on a Saturday. Should have finished that cup of coffee before posting!

I completely understand where you're coming from, and I think that believing in your skills, the tires, the bike, etc. goes a long way toward providing the confidence necessary to get through many of those oh-shit moments. I think that's made the difference for me on a few occasions.

All three points you mentioned are great points about cornering. Well stated.
 
Have you checked his tires? Most Rebel 250's with NOOBS aboard are likely to have tires that
1- havent the right air pressure
2- have become hard from age.

Alot of NOOBS also "bail" on the corner. Thier brain tells them that they cant lean anymore and they give up on it.

Maybe these points are valid in his case. But, maybe you should talk to him about this over a cold one.

Im glad that hes OK.
 
Confidence, confidence, confidence. It's the only that matters when you're a new rider. The guy in question crashed because he didn't believe he could it, then panicked. Panic almost always equals fail

If you don't believe you can do it, you won't, despite the fact that you can.
 
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terdog said:
Have you checked his tires? Most Rebel 250's with NOOBS aboard are likely to have tires that
1- havent the right air pressure
2- have become hard from age.

Alot of NOOBS also "bail" on the corner. Thier brain tells them that they cant lean anymore and they give up on it.

Maybe these points are valid in his case. But, maybe you should talk to him about this over a cold one.

Im glad that hes OK.
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I actually advised him prior to the ride to lower his psi a few pounds below the manual. His reply was that he just got it back from the dealer so they should be fine... There's a problem to begin with. On top of that he didn't have the mentality that you should always ride where you feel comfortable. I already slowed my pace down considerably, only doing about 15 over, but watching him in my mirrors, he did not take proper lines and dips the bike down with his body upright, which is why I gave him the advice to try to lean his body in more. I will definitely give him a good lesson once he is ready to hop back on the bike.

Dustin said:
Confidence, confidence, confidence. It's the only that matters when you're a new rider. The guy in question crashed because he didn't believe he could it, then panicked. Panic almost always equals fail

If you don't believe you can do it, you won't, despite the fact that you can.
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This is so true. I already know he was definitely not going too fast or leaning too far to exceed the tires traction limits. His problem was that he was scared to lean the bike over more which caused him to go wide, and when he realized he was going wide, he straightened the bike out, which of course left him no where to go. Had he leaned it more, he would still have the possibility of lowsiding, but the chances of making it through successfully are 100x better than just giving up mid corner.
 
terdog said:
Have you checked his tires? Most Rebel 250's with NOOBS aboard are likely to have tires that
1- havent the right air pressure
Click to expand...

Good point.....right now I'm on vacation in northern Montana (in a cage unfortunately) and there are a lot of bikes up here for the summer, many H-D's with the hard bags, and I was looking the other day and realizing what a pain in the a** it would be to check and adjust tire pressure on these types of machines. Road Kings, Gold Wings, all of the baggers have so much fender and luggage hanging low that getting under there with a gauge and air chuck wouldn't be pleasant. I suspect many of these roll out of the shop and never get checked until the tire becomes too low, wears out, or pulls a nail. I try to check my tires about every two weeks just to make sure they are within spec, and access is easy with our bikes with a centerstand.

To the OP, instead of trying to coach your buddy why don't you suggest he take a one day 'road craft' type course, maybe take it with him so he can pick up some better techniques. He sounds like he is too unsure of himself and needs some professional guidance.
 
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His #1 problem was that he didn't have the right attitude about group riding. The golden rule is to never push yourself to keep up with a faster rider, and he broke that rule which is why he crashed. I think every single rider should be reading up on different riding techniques and how to react in certain situations. When I'm not riding, I'm reading, and the riding knowledge I've gained from the internet has saved me more than a few times. I love watching the Rnickeymouse crash videos and assessing where each rider went wrong.
 
Dustin said:
A newbie with no experience is not a MotoGP rider on a MotoGP bike and this doesn't apply to him in the slightest.
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Exactly, he just needs to look thought the corner, lean the bike and hold his line. The last thing the guy needs to do is try to hang off when he can barely ride.

This is a case for using the KISS principle.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
 
Sorry, you misunderstood me. I didn't mean he should hang off or be using any advanced techniques whatsoever. Not at all! :)

I'm talking basic riding techniques here... looking where you want to go, staying loose, staying in line with your bike and leaning the bike with the handlebars. These give a new rider control and confidence. That's all I meant, nothing crazy. It's something you do without thinking every single time you ride. It's the basic fundamentals of riding a motorcycle as far as I'm concerned
 
I was probably wrong in advising him to hang off. I should've started with him just leaning with the bike. On top of that, he decided to try this new technique while entering a corner hot. When I first learned about body positioning, it felt strange, and I had to slow down my riding by a notch to get the hang of it. Now, it's second nature regardless of speed. Even just riding in town, I will still slide my butt to the side approaching a turn into an intersection or making a right to keep the bike more upright, because I've heard many stories and seen videos of guys slipping out over oil patches without warning.
 
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