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Ecu question

Personally i am not looking for miracles but hope this 09 upgrade will make the small improvements i am looking for . This was still cheaper than buying an fce in this country . I have also read good and bad of these gizzmos and made my decision based on all the good info i have found on this forum . I am really hoping this will make the improvements i am looking for and thats its not just been a waste of my time and money . I should finish the install later today and will report my findings once i have given it a good run . ! ! .
 
eurban said:
Didn't you send in your 06 ECU for a reflash and sell your 10 ecu because things weren't good enough? Didn't you sell your FZ1 too?
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I own Helgates 10 Euro ECU, I have my original 08 ECU and I had his hacked ECU for a weekend. All 3 have been extensively data logged. I found the 06 ECU unacceptable and untuneable by comparison. I could have returned any one of the three for him to sell with his bike. The 06 hacked ECU was the one that was on his bike when it was sold.

I am tuning a 07 hacked ECU right now.

Beast
 
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whittlebeast said:
I own Helgates 10 Euro ECU, I have my original 08 ECU and I had his hacked ECU for a weekend. All 3 have been extensively data logged. I found the 06 ECU unacceptable and untuneable by comparison. I could have returned any one of the three for him to sell with his bike. The 06 hacked ECU was the one that was on his bike when it was sold.

I am tuning a 07 hacked ECU right now.

Beast
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Beast what does you saying "untuneable" really mean? Would you like to ride my "tuned" 06? How about Mr Duken's tuned machine or any of the many other ones out there in FZ world. Are we really completely deluding ourselves to how well this platform can perform with the hardware and maps and mods that have been around and tweaked for almost as long as this Generation of FZ1 has?? Overall, you seem to be suggesting that the only way to tune our machines is to fork out big$ (on top of the cost of the required PC V)and use the complicated system that you are playing with. Honestly, this isn't going to work out for the vast majority of the owners out there. Are you really certain enough of the reliability of your feed back and have you really figured out enough about the depths of ECU programming to properly guide people to dump their stock ecu and plunk down $500 for the latest ecu and still need the PC V for proper tuning with or without intake / exhaust changes?

Cobalt, I haven't ridden a 12 but the reviews on the fueling were positive. The 10 that I have ridden had noticeable snatch (at least at the RPMs I was at while leaned over in twisties) that took away from the riding experience. The 11 that was reviewed on MC.COM (gentlemans sportbike shootout) had its abrupt on off throttle response commented upon. If you want a 12 ecu its almost certainly going to have to come from the dealer (at this point anyway) and that will cost big $$. Fuel cut on decel will still be part of the programming even if the snatch is trully improved. I personally can't see spending the money. Admittedly, I never was satisfied with the performance potential of the stock intake / exhaust setup so I needed a PC etc as part of package. Adding the $200 FCE to get rid of the snatch made / makes sense to me anyways. . .
 
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eurban said:
Overall, you seem to be suggesting that the only way to tune our machines is to fork out big$ (on top of the cost of the required PC V)and use the complicated system that you are playing with. Honestly, this isn't going to work out for the vast majority of the owners out there. Are you really certain enough of the reliability of your feed back and have you really figured out enough about the depths of ECU programming to properly guide people to dump their stock ecu and plunk down $500 for the latest ecu and still need the PC V for proper tuning with or without intake / exhaust changes?
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Yes, that fairly well sums it up. Any other questions?

Beast
 
To sum up , i did just over 100miles today and am very pleased with the results , the on/off throttle transition is almost perfect and i can change gear up in the 6-7k rev band without gripped teeth and saying the lords prayer . The mid range from 3k up is also vastly improved .All in all for me a good upgrade with out having to hack the bike around , cutting in to the loom etc and experiencing more tuning parts to compliment the ones done , so good result for little money if thats what your looking for , if i need more horses and extra power /torque it would probably be easier to change the bike :stunta]:
Thanks for all the input
 
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delbert said:
To sum up , i did just over 100miles today and am very pleased with the results , the on/off throttle transition is almost perfect and i can change gear up in the 6-7k rev band without gripped teeth and saying the lords prayer . The mid range from 3k up is also vastly improved .All in all for me a good upgrade with out having to hack the bike around , cutting in to the loom etc and experiencing more tuning parts to compliment the ones done , so good result for little money if thats what your looking for , if i need more horses and extra power /torque it would be easier to change the bike :stunta]:
Thanks for all the input
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Well that's an excellent result, well done.
 
program for the pc3

i need a program with gp slip on and airfilter and cutout mod. i hear duke did some excellent work. PC3 is the system im working with.
 
WB's setup is impractical for most owners to say the least. I have seen only 2-3 owners tuning theirs this way. IMO it is not worth the hassle and time when all the issues can be solved using mods that can be bought used and sold to recoup most of costs.

And I agree FCE is not mandatory. A "good" rider can ride around it well enough. I didn't have a huge problem with the snatch but I got a good deal on the FCE and mainly bought it for the extra 10 hp or so in the midrange.
 
CrazyBiker

How can you come to a conclusion like that when you have never tried it? That is like voting based on what you hear on TV commercials.

Beast
 
About 5 years ago, I had a Megasquirt internet friend that was doing 450 Hp 4 cylinder Mustang turbo installs. A very interesting guy. Over the last 5 years, I lost track of what he was up to.

Fast forward to last week. I found out that in those lost years, he had landed a job for one of the huge engine company's. He then landed a one year contract with a stock car team to develop the EFI setup for the team. He spent 10 million in one year with a team goal of finding 10 more peak HP. It was truly amazing hearing to things he learned, just looking at the data. It is "look at the data" that I preach.

Ironically, he found me on one of these sites looking at one of my datalogs and asked a few questions. The questions were far more interesting that the typical internet EFI question. We were bouncing a few questions back and forth and realized we knew each other from years ago. I turns out I was comparing data logs off the FZ1 to what I found on the racecar that I was tuning. He chimed in pointing out how the issues were all related.

On that motor, I log everything TPS based, MAP based and MAF based and was pointing out the some amazing observations when comparing the data.

Beast
 
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My conclusion is cost, time and mental effort based. I would rather just slap a few mods, put a map and just ride more worry less :rmwl:.

It is a great service what you are doing but when the tuning becomes DIY, that is where it stops getting interesting for most. My bike is smooth with either of the Duke's or your maps. I don't have any complaints at all. In fact most with full mods don't have any....

So what are the additional insights that you have gained can help others? Have you thought about converting your latest tuning data and providing a map? I see your maps in the packs are pretty old now.
 
The conclusion I came to is I will never one of these bikes with TPS based tuning. Most of the tuning I do is done where your ride 90% of the time.

Beast
 
With modern technology I thought ECUs should have gotten intelligent enough and should have been already doing what you are doing. If not, the makers need to hire more people like you. As race tuners, they will always have the latest and greatest as far as technology is concerned.

We very well know that all makers used their racing pedigree to transform technology to their commercial street products. I wonder why there is a missing link and why the bikes still come out especially from the Japs with crappy fueling even with the EPA regulations in place. Yamaha is the biggest culprit in this case. I wonder how Euro makers get it right out of the box especially Triumph and Aprilia.
 
Most ECUs these days target 14.7 AFR as that is the only AFR that a stock narrow band understands. It is quite possible to program almost any of the Innovate widebands to output any target AFR as .45 volts to trick the stock ECU into homing in on whatever AFR you want.

see http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LC-1_Manual.pdf

page 14 should dial you right in. If you weld in a couple of extra bungs and hang a wideband and LC-200 display and you can verify everything.

Feel free to get your mastercard out and give it a try. It is only $199. A bargain as an experiment that might work. Heck we went thru a brand new set of $1000 race tires yesterday just verifying a chassis setup on the racecar. Last weekend we blew $100 in ammo just dialing in the scope on the AR-15. And that pails by comparison to playing with the Slidefire.

Beast
 
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