PC5/Wideband and a New way of Tuning

whittlebeast

whittlebeast

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I have recently brought home a new PC5 with both the wideband and digital display options.

I have never been a big fan with tuning an EFI bike with a TPS based tuning systems. In the Yamaha liter bike world, that has been only the only game in town until lately when a couple of companies figured out how to hack the ECU directly. You are still stuck trusting them to know your bike.

Pc5DigitalDisplay.jpg


What I have done is added to the system a MAP device that is totally self contained with the exception of 12 volts and a ground. What this device does is feed a 0 to 1.66 volt signal into one of the ports on the PC5 that is essentially the percent load (or percent power) that the motor is putting out. This is exactly the same thing that the underlying stock ECU is using to develop their fuel curves. This is all called Speed-Density fueling. I am just doing the fuel adjustment based on the same gauge of load.

PLX Devices Inc - USA

Now there are some new and amazing features in the MegaVogViewer software I have always used to look a data. The newest version is MegaLogViewer HD that was originally designed to look at Harley tuning software. It happens to be perfect for looking at the data logs coming off the PC5 data logger. The newest feature is the ability to do 3d graphing where the third dimension is color based. The software is free right now and will be fully functional till late December.

see MegaLogViewer HD

Here is a screen shot off my Stage 1 tune that I have been running for a couple of years without issue.

http://www.ncs-stl.com/pc5wb/PC5WB_AfrScatterBefore.jpg

On the left is what tuners have been trying to deal with for years. Tuning based on TPS and RPM. Keep in mind that many of these bikes still have secondary throttles that are really controlling what the EFI is controlling.

In the right is my new way of looking at things. It is all based on MAP and RPM. Look how easy it is to pick up the pattern where things go lean.

Now look at my new map that I have about 6 rides of testing in. It is not done but more of a work in process.

http://www.ncs-stl.com/pc5wb/PC5WB_AfrScatterCompare.jpg

Same view and the same scale. The lean spots at high load are gone.

Last is a screen shot of just how linear the throttle has gotten. The torque is essentially the pull on the chain. It is measured as RpmPerSec as the harder the motor pulls on the chain, the harder the bike accelerates.

http://www.ncs-stl.com/pc5wb/PC5WB_StreetAccelCompare.jpg

Way cool stuff and you don't have to have blind faith in some guy that charges $125 per hour and you don't need a $25,000 dyno.

Have fun tuning

Beast
 
I think it's pretty cool. I just wish I could grasp all of what it entails. I looked at those graphs and it's all mumbo jumbo to me. I guess I'm just hopelessly naturally aspirated.:confused: I think I'm going to look for a "Fuel Injection For Dummies" book and start reading.
 
whittlebeast said:
EFI is easy. Suck, Squish, BANG, blow......

It gets easier once you start getting your head around the basics.

Beast
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm sure if I was in front of someone actually loading maps or doing some tuning I could get a better grasp of all this electronics stuff. If my next bike is going to be F.I., I had better get to studying!
 
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This method for tuning is really dialing in now. Here is a screen shot of the AFR in Alpha-N on the left and Speed-Density on the right. I an finding that some things may show up as a better defined pattern in Alpha-N and other times Speed-Density is the more convenient method to reach the area that is showing up rich or lean.

see http://www.ncs-stl.com/pc5wb/AN_vs_SD.bmp

This map is really getting close. That ride was a little over an hour long on all sorts of different roads. Red areas imply lots of lean hits and deep blue implies rich.

My latest tune, the PC5_WB.settings file to get MegaLogViewer HD to work, and the latest data log are all posted on my site at

Index of /pc5wb

MegaLogViewer HD can be downloaded for free (till January) at

MegaLogViewer HD

Have fun tuning

Beast
 
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whittlebeast said:
EFI is easy. Suck, Squish, BANG, blow......

It gets easier once you start getting your head around the basics.

Beast
Click to expand...

Ahhh , the fallicy of the Suck .

Atomospheric pressure (the air that you cannot see around you) at sea level is around 14psi .

When a piston goes down with the inlet valve open , a low pressure area is created , lower than 14psi , pretend inside the cylinder is -0psi when the piston is going down , outside is 14psi ! , so actually in a basic terminology there is a Blow .

Natually Aspirated could be another way of saying Naturally Blown :)
 
Another method.

In a Spaceship full of air in space , open the door and you'll get Blown out..
 
Channel195 said:
Another method.

In a Spaceship full of air in space , open the door and you'll get Blown out..
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that analogy as when the piston is moving down it's movement is creating vacuum within the cyclinder. Where as the space ship door is opening to a vacuum and the two states are equalizing.
 
Hellgate said:
So Andy, how difficult is this for a "human" to do? In other words if an everyday Joe wanted to try this what is involved?
Click to expand...

All you need is is a pc5, the LCD display and I have the two channel version of the wideband controller from Power Commander that normally ships for Harley's. There are other versions on the wideband controllers that may have slightly different features.

I then got a map sensor from PLX and T'ed it into the MAP signal hose going to the stock MAP sensor. Last, I installed a .050" restriction in the hose by using a Makuni idle jet from a jetski. The PLX unit has the advantage as all I needed was to get 12V unfiltered power to it. You can use a GM 1 bar map sensor but you need to tap into the bikes 5 volt system to get power. Power for the wide band and the MAP sensor comes from the blue wire powering the brake light.

Then you download MegaLogViewer HD software and import my settings file from my site. Right now the SW is free to use till January.

The rest is just data logging a ride and then just looking at the data. The rich and lean spots jump right out at you. You can take your choice of making adjustments on the TPS based map or on the intake pressure (load) based map. I prefer to make most of my adjustments on the pressure based map. You will find later in the process that you can make a few tweaks best on the TPS map.

It really is that easy and you do not have to purchase a dyno as a first step.

Beast
 
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Hellgate said:
I'm not sure about that analogy as when the piston is moving down it's movement is creating vacuum within the cyclinder. Where as the space ship door is opening to a vacuum and the two states are equalizing.
Click to expand...

Piston going down as you have typed is creating a vacuum , or a low pressure area , so high pressure outside is equalizing! same meaning , different words .
Blowing in

Wind "blows" from one spot to another as there is a low area compared to a high area , trying to neutralize the pressure = wind blowing .

cheers....
 
Even the boffin's (scientists) with billions of bucks to play with have not got to a perfect absolute zero in pressure(or the lack of) or temperature.

Somewhere around .000000?c and the likes
Absolute Zero Demonstration Sheet

just a bit of trivia :jaw drop:

How air gets into a cylinder [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4LRz-1LaMY"]Crushing a 55 gallon steel drum - YouTube[/ame]


Another example is Thunder , the lightning splits rhe air , the noise is the air recombining from being split .
 
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I have been doing quite a bit of tuning and testing this weekend. I ran into an issue that may prove to be the thing that keeps us from ever getting the perfect tune on one of these bikes with the existing code Yamaha is running in these ECUs. In this trace, you can see from the top trace that I ran for 7.5 sec at 6 percent throttle and 4750 RPM. The MAP reading in the intake was a nearly constant 63 KPA. I happen to have a Throttlemiester throttle lock on my bike.

On the second trace you can see the duty cycle on the injectors jumped a little about 1/2 way thru the trace from 9 percent to 10 percent for no apparent reason. This has to be taken with a grain of salt as the resolution of duty cycle on this device is just one digit resolution. You can also see the fuel correction that the Power Commander is serving up is nearly constant a -1 to -2 percent.

Now look at the AFR trace. I has a steady slide from 14.5 to 12.5 over this 7.5 sec trace. I have no idea how to even begin to tune this out and is the sort of thing that you will never find without looking at the data.

The 08 ECU does appear to hold constant AFR better than the 2010 ECU.

SlidingAFR.jpg


Beast
 
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