Brian7cees
Well-Known Member
Also Nel's did tell me he does no changes in the fueling on our bikes in the ecu
FlashTune
- Thread starter jared p
- Start date
MRM
Member
Brian,
Just to confirm (I know you mentioned it in an earlier post), your bike is bone stock with no mods and you find that it behaves better now with the flashtune?
Thanks
Mike
Ivan_IPP
Well-Known Member
Cougar (Jim) took his bike to this shop for the "test".
He should have known better than to go to a competing vendor... I'm surprised that they didn't show more of a gain.
Ivan
jared p
Wizard
not sure what it should or shouldn't be, i dont make assumptions, the dyno says it's not.
all it was is to see what the dyno said. what it shows is you have a good flash. your fuel map however needed tweaking. every bike is unique, and should have its fuel mapping done on the dyno. and if you want to see what his bike made after having it's fueling corrected, i'll get that graph up soon.
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Brian7cees
Well-Known Member
Yes, My bike is bone stock.... Nel's did say, and after riding my bike, a Power commander would be needed to fine tune to make it perfect. In the case of my bike that would be adding a little fuel at the low rpm to get rid of that last little bit of snatch. Me I am not worried about that as I find the bike SO much more friendly now. The little that is there now is a non issue if I adjust my riding style and just drop a gear when going into the corners keeping it above 4000rpm, when doing that yesterday I noticed none. I have a tendency of being lazy and just cruising through corners in top gear when touring or on a longer trip.
I went with Nel's because he is relatively local for me (an easy 250 mile ride)and I wanted to keep my quiet anchor of a pipe...lol, I also did not want to mess with a pc5. But if I was doing the whole package for performance I would have used Ivan. Ivan has the experience, nothing but great reviews, and has "the whole package' for performance. After having mine flashed being stock I would think??? Ivan's flash could work for a stock bike. Just remember any flash won't be perfect, as mine isn't, without a pc3 or 5 for all you perfectionist pro riders:-} I'll let Ivan and Jared chime in on that.
In my case I am much happier and like the bike a whole bunch more now. I didn't want nor need perfection, Just wanted a friendlier throttle and I got that. The minor snatch that is left and not having the total power package is ok with me. Now if it maintains the 42 mpg so my range isn't affected when touring I will be a real happy camper. Will update when I fill her back up. At present I am down 1 or 2 bars on the gas gage and have close to 90 miles on this tank. .
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jared p
Wizard
what do you normally get?
i'm quite hamfisted when i ride around town so, i dont generally pay attention to gas mileage, i just fill it up when i hit reserve. when touring, i generally get 120-130ish miles til reserve then fill up. but, when i'm holding triple digits for half an hour, well my mileage suffers...
Brian7cees
Well-Known Member
Before the flash I'd be down to 1 bar on my fuel gage at between 130-145 miles (all are a little different), which worked out to 42-45 mpg. After flash I don't know yet. I will know that by the end of the week and will post that result. I would like everyone to also realize I don't ride my bike as hard as a lot of you and it is a low mile 2006 which seems to do pretty good for mpg when touring, but with the 2006 we were also the ones that got stuck with the worst throttle and snatch. I am hoping now that I have a real nice throttle that I at least stay close to my previous mpg. I like the longer range when touring.
I would think that now having the bikes ecu optimized with all the emissions shit turned off and the timing tables set at optimal that it would use less throttle position to make the same power it did before. If that thinking holds true I should actually see an increase when touring. This 1st tank won't be typical cause I did have some fun factor now that I have a smooth throttle. But will give me an idea though
fisherman322
Wizard
Ivan, Have you any thought`s of doing a flash for a stock bike?
Darth5oh
Well-Known Member
So Brian - you got Jared's flash, which is actually designed for a slip-on and some customer fuel mapping? Or does Nels actually have a bone-stock flash? The cheaper FlashTune (link above) also assumes a slip-on.
As fisherman said - I'd think there would be a market for a stock flash. I'm not interested in making the bike louder and spending thousands on computers and a tune. Maybe all I really need is Ivan's FCE...
As fisherman said - I'd think there would be a market for a stock flash. I'm not interested in making the bike louder and spending thousands on computers and a tune. Maybe all I really need is Ivan's FCE...
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OldBiker
Wizard
I feel the same. A flash for stock would be great.
jared p
Wizard
damn, you get pretty good mileage outta your bike. let us know how it works out. in theory, it should be the same or better. in reality, it all comes down to your acceleration and speed
just to clarify, it's nels flash, i dont wanna take his credit for his product. this flash works great with a stock bike and doesn't change between the two. the timing change is the same, power restrictions are still removed, the throttle is much smoother, the engine braking is almost gone, it revs out a little higher and faster, fans get turned on earlier etc. a full system is changing the air fuel ratio. you adjust for that with fueling. sometimes a little timing. this flash will work for any set up on your bike, and if you do have a full system, he can put the fuel adjustments into the flash, but fueling adjustments should be done on the dyno on a per bike basis with a fuel programmer to get ideal results.
the flash works great with a completely stock bike. on the fz1, the difference between a stock bike and a slip on bike flash, is fueling adjustments. for a stock bike this is the perfect solution to getting your bike to run amazing, without spending a ton on performance parts. with the restrictions removed, this bike is awesome. the flash disables the restrictions and adjusts timing. thats about it. and its awesome. i'll get the stock graphs put up so you can see the difference as well
basically i shoulda just said, this flash works perfectly for a stock bike.
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Brian7cees
Well-Known Member
Darth and Oldbiker.... I can't speak for an fce as I have never had one. But I have seen nothing but good reports on it....... Jared answer to your questions is the same as Nel's told me. I am very happy with the way my bike runs now, but everyone seems to have different idea's on what is right and what they like that is why I tried so hard to give a complete and thorough description of what I experienced riding and testing different riding circumstances in my original review. I do want to test more in some serious twisties to get a better feel for the little snatch that is left at low rpm and report on that. As nel's said I do believe a PC3 or 5 would eliminate the little that is left. I am going to go run Rattlesnake grade in NE Oregon in the next month or so with my son on his Ninja 650. Before he kinda smoked me in the corners, Mainly cause those low speed corners in a lower gear with the bad snatch an 2006 has from the factory is outright dangerous. Pushing it hard before gave me a few close calls so I was intimidated by it.... I had better smoke him this time:-} After all my ego is at stake....hee-hee. Actually it is close to 70 here today maybe I will go run the grade to 49 degree's north today. I really want an answer to that anyway.
With the flash I am feeling that the little snatch that is left down low I can live with because the rest is so smooth and nice. Acceleration is much better in the mid range and 1-3 gears are much better. I don't think I would say there is much more if any over all HP gains, It plain runs different so it is hard to gage on the ole butt dyno, but it is stronger in the mid and much smoother all the way through the rpm range and it doesn't feel like it is choked down below 8000k anymore. But it also didn't pull the front wheel off the ground like I imagined it would having all the restrictions removed. I did get way up on the tank and do have stock sprockets though. What was real noticeable and different is when I shifted to 2nd and 3rd it sure seamed to pull harder. I also have to admit I do kinda miss that surge at 8000k. I guess I got my jollies when it just kinda went along and then all of sudden felt like a turbo was kicking in:-}
I am very happy with the flash and would highly recommend Nel's flash to anyone with a stock bike that is after the same goals as I was. Besides for the advertised $175 flash what is there to loose, Nels did tell me that if I didn't like it he would return it to stock and refund my $.That was all I needed to really make this bike nice for me and my riding styles. I am keeping it
With the flash I am feeling that the little snatch that is left down low I can live with because the rest is so smooth and nice. Acceleration is much better in the mid range and 1-3 gears are much better. I don't think I would say there is much more if any over all HP gains, It plain runs different so it is hard to gage on the ole butt dyno, but it is stronger in the mid and much smoother all the way through the rpm range and it doesn't feel like it is choked down below 8000k anymore. But it also didn't pull the front wheel off the ground like I imagined it would having all the restrictions removed. I did get way up on the tank and do have stock sprockets though. What was real noticeable and different is when I shifted to 2nd and 3rd it sure seamed to pull harder. I also have to admit I do kinda miss that surge at 8000k. I guess I got my jollies when it just kinda went along and then all of sudden felt like a turbo was kicking in:-}
I am very happy with the flash and would highly recommend Nel's flash to anyone with a stock bike that is after the same goals as I was. Besides for the advertised $175 flash what is there to loose, Nels did tell me that if I didn't like it he would return it to stock and refund my $.That was all I needed to really make this bike nice for me and my riding styles. I am keeping it
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Darth5oh
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the detailed writeup, Brian!
And thanks also Jared. I realize it's Nels flash - I just thought it was designed for your specific bike. I guess what you are saying, is that if Nels knows you have a bone stock bike, the fuel adjustments will be slightly different compared to a "stock" bike with a slip-on ??
And thanks also Jared. I realize it's Nels flash - I just thought it was designed for your specific bike. I guess what you are saying, is that if Nels knows you have a bone stock bike, the fuel adjustments will be slightly different compared to a "stock" bike with a slip-on ??
loosenut
Wizard
And did he tell you why? I'm pretty sure I know why.
Kpd1031
Well-Known Member
Brian7cees
Well-Known Member
I can't answer that. He didn't share why and I didn't pursue why. But with 2 of you asking you have me curious. So what is the answer?
Brian7cees
Well-Known Member
Here is the breakdown so far of MPG.... Sunday's spirited and slab driving along with some slab driving today toward 49 degree's north ='s 115.9 miles, used 2.724 gallons for a mpg of 42.61.... The remainder of today had semi spirited riding in the twisties being about 25 miles the rest slab at 60mph... I went 90.1 miles, used 1.965 gallons for a mpg of 45.85. Today's twisties I was unable to really get on it. The mountain pass had a lot of gravel left on the road. It is still freezing up there at night and was told they had snow 2 nights ago. For that reason I wasn't able to really push it and get the complete answer I wanted about residual snatch after flash. I did notice more when coming down grade being in the 5- 9k rpm range and suddenly dropping throttle position to 0 then getting back on it. If I was gradual at getting back on it, it was almost none to none. It is still tons and tons better that the stock ecu from Yamaha on the 2006. Newer model ecu's may have less to 0 snatch do to yamaha's better fueling in later years. I would be real curios about that if anyone with a newer ecu get's flashed or to hear what the ecu pro's think about that..
Even though I haven't been able to push it to the limit on a long set of twisties I have had enough seat time to tell it is much better... I have put over 200 miles on it since flash and I do feel a lot better and much safer than ever before being spirited in the corners the throttle and power is so much more predictable and smooth. with that said, I am keeping it as is.
Even though I haven't been able to push it to the limit on a long set of twisties I have had enough seat time to tell it is much better... I have put over 200 miles on it since flash and I do feel a lot better and much safer than ever before being spirited in the corners the throttle and power is so much more predictable and smooth. with that said, I am keeping it as is.
loosenut
Wizard
In a nut shell: it is very difficult and time consuming and would require much more dyno time to develop. I don't think the software can do this, Hence the reason why Nel's told Brian7cees that a PC would help.
jared p
Wizard
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the software does do it. it is very time consuming, the important second half being, to make changes. but not impossible. and it doesn't takes much more dyno time, but without a PC to adjust and copy the map over, it'd take an extra hour instead of an extra 5 minutes. on top of that, brians bike wasnt on the dyno, he just brought in his ecu to get flashed. if nels had the bike on the dyno i'm sure he could have smoothed out the last bit of throttle snatch brian is reporting.
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loosenut
Wizard
"Doesn't require" does not equal optimum.