How Did You "Train" for the Twisties?

Sactown2008

Sactown2008

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What was your method for, "Learning to keep up with very experienced friends in the Twisties.?" Is it just lots of trips into the hills on your own? Is it riding the same curved roads over and over? What did it take to get your knee down during Counter-steering?

I commute SEVEN miles thru downtown Sacramento two days a week(and never in the rain), so not allot of practice there. :rofl:

Looking to hear what other FZ1 riders went through to keep up with their clip-on Sport-bike friends. I will do 10-15 mph over the posted limits on the curves, but two of my new friends this week(whom have gone all over the USA) were doing 20-30mph faster all day long going from Sacramento, to Lake Berryessa to Napa then home. I seemed to constantly be half-a-mile behind them between stops. The guy on the old 83 Guzzi(just bought in Texas and ridden home to Sacramento) and the woman on the white 848(she also owned a Ninja 636 track bike) had SICK cornering skills. We saw a group of BMW dual-sport riders flying around corners, sitting up right like it they were on desk chairs. I thought, "How h*ll can they be so fast? those are not Sport Bikes."

Thank you for any tips.

Sunday FUN.jpg
 
Always ride well within your limits, never going out of your comfort zone. Avoid trying to 'keep up'. As you gain skills and confidence, speed increases & lean increases.

Once you get in over your head, you stop thinking and start working more on instinct which leads to (costly) mistakes. Natural human instincts are contrary to what's required to ride a bike correctly and they do more to harm you than help. Things like braking or chopping throttle from going into a corner too fast, those don't work, just the contrary. Riding a motorcycle is a learned thing which requires practice and muscle memory. I like to think in percentages and try to stay around that 70-80% mark. Always keep something in reserve.

Take an advanced rider training course, pick up some books. I can recommend a few if you like
 
That's one reason I like to ride on my own. I have friends who push too hard and others that aren't as fast as I am. I don't want to make a mistake trying to keep up and I don't want to have a friend make a mistake trying to keep up with me. As they say practise practise practise, as you get familiar with your bike and your confidence grows, so too will your cornering speed. I have roads I don't ride anymore as I find that I can't corner as fast as I want to legally, which makes it boring and I don't want a speedo check from the police. If I do go on a group ride I'll stick a corner or two back from the guys in front so as I don't feel pressure to keep up with them.
 
Just like the others have said. Learn and travel at your own comfy pace. Its really easy to get sucked into trying to keep up with your friends but you just have to remember to restrain yourself.

I myself hardly ever go riding outside of my 12mile commute to work and so its 24 miles round trip.


Maybe with yours, you should start taking super long ways to get to and from work to have more seat time on your bike.

Practice does come pretty damn close to perfect. I've been riding for two years thru all of the season and have only 8k miles under my belt and I've learned to ride hell of a lot better than my buddy that thinks he's hot shit because he rides an R1.
 
Well it is all about practice. Do not go over your limit and best learn alone. That said one good rider can help you improve faster but that's a complicated way because s/he must know your limits and ride accordingly something that never works in a group.
It is never about riding every time the same road until you get a knee down. That only means once you take another road you will probably crash. Riding a lot of different roads and not to often the same is the best method to get real driving skills. I know lots of people who always ride the same road and are crazy fast on them. Well that usually tends in disaster because you know the road so well that you go over the safty limit and than something unexpected might happen and you do not have enough margin to compensate. It is also extremely boring to do the same thing over and over again that's why I still prefer road riding over track days.
 
Sactown2008 said:
What was your method for, "Learning to keep up with very experienced friends in the Twisties.?" Is it just lots of trips into the hills on your own? Is it riding the same curved roads over and over? What did it take to get your knee down during Counter-steering?

I commute SEVEN miles thru downtown Sacramento two days a week(and never in the rain), so not allot of practice there. :rofl:

Looking to hear what other FZ1 riders went through to keep up with their clip-on Sport-bike friends. I will do 10-15 mph over the posted limits on the curves, but two of my new friends this week(whom have gone all over the USA) were doing 20-30mph faster all day long going from Sacramento, to Lake Berryessa to Napa then home. I seemed to constantly be half-a-mile behind them between stops. The guy on the old 83 Guzzi(just bought in Texas and ridden home to Sacramento) and the woman on the white 848(she also owned a Ninja 636 track bike) had SICK cornering skills. We saw a group of BMW dual-sport riders flying around corners, sitting up right like it they were on desk chairs. I thought, "How h*ll can they be so fast? those are not Sport Bikes."

Thank you for any tips.

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Think about going to a riding school , Learn the correct way to corner, brake etc, well worth the money, can also make you a safer rider
 
Just as you said, it's all about finding a good road with great corners. I have my goto road that really nothing can compare to. Many solo trips up there, then following some of the fast guys once I got better is how I got to the level of riding I'm at now. It literally makes no difference what riding position you're in. You can be fast in the corners on any bike provided you have enough ground clearance and good enough suspension. In fact, clip-ons for the street are absolutely useless. Guys want to switch from clip-ons to handlebars when they see how fast I am (for only a brief second because I'm gone). You're close to me. If you haven't, you should definitely check out Skaggs. It is the ultimate road to train on. It was designed by the Army Corps of Engineers and the curves are absolutely flawless. It is literally a racetrack with guardrails. The most important part to riding fast is to first work on being smooth, hitting good lines, and staying relaxed on the bike. If you do that then the speed comes naturally. Also, if you haven't already done it, watch or read Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist 2.
[video=youtube;4CQCrt9nFyY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CQCrt9nFyY[/video]
 
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The street is no place to push your skills. It's not the bike but the rider. I had always heard the track will take your riding to the next level and it's true!

I suggest you do a track day from a good provider such as Reg Pridmore, Lee Parks, Keith Code where they have instructors ride the track with you. They will follow you and than have you follow them along with class room instruction. Sears Point or Thunderhill near Willows are great road course tracks. I have been to both twice, it's a blast.

Also the best part about the track is the ambulance is already there. Catch my drift?
 
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OneSizeFitsAll said:
The street is no place to push your skills. It's not the bike but the rider. I had always heard the track will take your riding to the next level and it's true!

I suggest you do a track day from a good provider such as Reg Pridmore, Lee Parks, Keith Code where they have instructors ride the track with you. They will follow you and than have you follow them along with class room instruction. Sears Point or Thunderhill near Willows are great road course tracks. I have been to both twice, it's a blast.

Also the best part about the track is the ambulance is already there. Catch my drift?
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Yes I agree. The track is no doubt the best place to hone your skills. However, not everyone can just go to the track whenever. You can also definitely improve your skills on the street without pushing your limits.
 
For me, it was doing track days that elevated my riding.

I started in slow group and within 2 years I was riding in the fast group.

You can push your own and your bike's limits in a relatively safe environment.
 
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This is very similar to skiing for me. You can always learn more with lessons (track days) because the instructor will observe and critique your form and suggest how to improve it.

I found a nice little twisty area that I enjoy riding through but as stated above, you will eventually get bored staying within the speed limits (10mph in one section and 20-30 in most of the twisty area) I do push the envelope a little and hit 35-40 but there are LEOs hiding out there for those foolish enough to knee drag at unsafe speeds. These roads are not center line striped and has two way traffic of tree gazers. Still it works well enough for me to practice transitions and body placement.
 
Practice... and it doesn't mean you have to go fast to master corners. Low-speed turning using cones in a parking lot can be extremely beneficial. For those of us who are unfortunate to have to put the bike away for months, we tend to get a bit "dusty" over the winter. In the spring, I like to go out for the first few days and do maneuvers at low-speed in a parking lot. Technique is far more important than speed. After you master technique, speed will come naturally.

As far as mastering, we never really do on the street and shouldn't... it's dangerous and unintelligent plus it gives riders who do not do this a bad name. Extreme riding should be in a closed course. On the street, speed isn't crucial, this is where you practice technique.

Myself? I'm a "fair" rider. I have a LONG way to go to become proficient at cornering and because I do not track, I'll never be "that good" but when I'm on the street, I do try and keep good form and follow best practices from the pros. I'm faster than a lot, but I'm slower than the rest. As others stated, I ride my own pace. I do NOT give in to peer pressure nor do I ever encourage a fellow rider to keep pace with me. My key practice is "alone time" on the road. When I ride with Michele, who is not an aggressive rider, (and we have BT helmets) I always tell her when we reach the twisties, see ya at the other end. She rides her ride and I do the same. Although, she's getting better because I don't have to wait long at the other end anymore. ;)

I guess the proper words are "Use common sense" and "Speed at the track" Just be safe out there, please! We want you here typing about good times and posting great videos!
 
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Thunderhill is not far from Sacramento

Thank you everyone.

I was watching T of W II last night. The track looks like the best place to learn AND practice (dealing with weekend tourists on Northern CA highways IS NOT fun). I see Christmas, Birthday and Father's day TRACK DAY gifts to myself.

I really appreciate all of your advice. Two years of commuting 7 miles to work through downtown? I might as well be on a moped for all I am learning.

puchmoped400.jpg

Well, I did learn cars never see us.

:bowdown:
 
OneSizeFitsAll said:
Wanna practice in the twisty's? Go ride this every chance you get, it's only an hour from Sac. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/For...e115b43!2m2!1d-120.4444046!2d39.1129564?hl=en
Notice G maps has 35 miles will take and hour and a half :bowdown:
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WOW OneSize! I made the HUGE mistake two years ago at 3pm riding from Sac, up Auburn Folsom Road, to Forresthill, on a very hot day, ate too much BBQ with about 20 buddys, then road back in the setting Sun. KICKED my butt. All the locals in on my tail from Forresthill to Auburn and I can't see where I am going (never again). I'll try your route someday. It looks like fun.
 
Well, quoting Laura Stamm - a skating instructor up to the NHL level: "Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect"

We can chase our tales in circles but unless someone who knows is watching and correcting we might quite well cementing wrong habits.
 
So many twisties in our area. Just get out there! Some of my faves within a couple hundred mile radius: (some a little hard this time of year)

-mosquito ridge road
-went worth springs / ice house / wrights lake
-mini dragon hwy 49 / priest grade road
-sierra passes 88, 4, 108, 120
-49 to downyville
-70 or 162 to Quincy
-36 to Fortuna
-lost coast highway
-Legett to fort Bragg hwy 1
-comptche ukiah road off hwy 1
-knoxville berryessa road
-mines road
-pool station road
-29 to Clearlake
-la honda, skyline etc.
-salmon falls
-hwy 193
-rock creek road
- numerous other goat roads I cannot name

You're more than welcome to join me for a local ride sometime. Doug, we should go for a ride soon - it's been almost a year!
 
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