When we're not marveling over minibikes , we're touting the benefits of literbikes or even V8s stuffed between two wheels ; it seems that the middle ground doesn't garner much attention in the motorcycle world.
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2011 Yamaha FZ8 Review: Potent Middleweight Seeks Open-Minded Riders
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PK1
Well-Known Member
I've nothing against mid-sized bikes, but whats wrong with litre bikes or even 1400cc bikes? Haven't these blokes heard of throttle control?
Why bother getting a bike that is based on the FZ1 but without the grunt....I'll stick with the FZ1 thank you very much!
Why bother getting a bike that is based on the FZ1 but without the grunt....I'll stick with the FZ1 thank you very much!
Norm
Wizard
I agree. There's certainly nothing in the reviews to make me want to switch out of the FZ1 other than maybe a few more MPG's.
Dustin
Moderator
Lots of reasons. Do you drive a car with 700hp every day?
I rode my FZ1 basically every day until I sold it for financial reasons. Insurance cost, fuel mileage, size, weight, etc--the bike was perfectly enjoyable but I wanted something smaller for commuting.
The power was a non-issue since it was basically pointless and unusable in my daily commutes, why even bother? I just couldn't justify having so much power for no reason--a middleweight makes much more sense just for the sheer amount of commuting I do
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Oldschool
Moderator
Devil's Advocate
Having the power and using it are two very different things, as someone else pointed out (control, both of one self and the machine). Insurance costs at least here are partially dependent on cc. The jump is at 798 so an 800 makes no difference.The next is at 1100cc. If the machine was lighter and tuned for more middleweight grunt, great, but it is virtually the same (weight-wise) as the FZ-1 that it is derived from with less top end. Top that off with a price tag nearly the same as the FZ-1 (too little difference to make it a factor if you are calculating payments).
As far as it being a "middle weight", only if there are a bunch of 1600's running around. A 600 is generally considered a "middle weight" and other than the GSXR 750 there are not many in the 750 - 800 size around ( I could rattle off more that are available in Europe but that is a very different market). How the FZ-8 does in the North American market remains to be seen. Having an FZ-1 makes a detuned (parts bin) bike like the FZ-8 seem like an inferior product. Having seen a few "in the flesh" does nothing to change that opinion. The only thing that Yamaha has done is increase their own aftermarket product support (fender eliminators, screens, etc.).
In Europe the market is large enough that they will surely sell enough, and the "naked" model, (previously only available here if you made it yourself) should be somewhat popular. It will have competition with the new naked Honda and Suzuki and Kawasaki so it better be good. I doubt there will be a rush of FZ-1 owners downsizing to save fuel and have a better commuting experience though. The FZ-1 is just too much fun and too versatile to go that route.
Having the power and using it are two very different things, as someone else pointed out (control, both of one self and the machine). Insurance costs at least here are partially dependent on cc. The jump is at 798 so an 800 makes no difference.The next is at 1100cc. If the machine was lighter and tuned for more middleweight grunt, great, but it is virtually the same (weight-wise) as the FZ-1 that it is derived from with less top end. Top that off with a price tag nearly the same as the FZ-1 (too little difference to make it a factor if you are calculating payments).
As far as it being a "middle weight", only if there are a bunch of 1600's running around. A 600 is generally considered a "middle weight" and other than the GSXR 750 there are not many in the 750 - 800 size around ( I could rattle off more that are available in Europe but that is a very different market). How the FZ-8 does in the North American market remains to be seen. Having an FZ-1 makes a detuned (parts bin) bike like the FZ-8 seem like an inferior product. Having seen a few "in the flesh" does nothing to change that opinion. The only thing that Yamaha has done is increase their own aftermarket product support (fender eliminators, screens, etc.).
In Europe the market is large enough that they will surely sell enough, and the "naked" model, (previously only available here if you made it yourself) should be somewhat popular. It will have competition with the new naked Honda and Suzuki and Kawasaki so it better be good. I doubt there will be a rush of FZ-1 owners downsizing to save fuel and have a better commuting experience though. The FZ-1 is just too much fun and too versatile to go that route.
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Dustin
Moderator
I agree with you on on everything you've said Lee. The power is all about control and I really never had an issue with my FZ1 having so much power, it was really a lot of fun and made touring a breeze. That said, I'm a minimalist by nature and a bike like that sort of goes against my nature.
The very fact I bought a 140hp 1000cc bike was a shock to my friends. It was a fantastic bike and I think one of the best all-around bikes out there (at least the Gen I). I think it was probably one of the technically best bikes I've owned, if not the best. Maybe not as fun as my SM was, but almost.
It's a very personal thing anyway and out here, an 800cc is in the same insurance bracket as a 1000cc so it makes the switch sort of pointless. Our insurance classes in BC are as follows:
0-110
111-400
401-750
751-1150
1151+
There are very significant differences between the classes but the FZ8 would be lumped into the same class as the FZ1, so I agree--why not get the FZ1?
I see you like to play devil's advocate too.
The very fact I bought a 140hp 1000cc bike was a shock to my friends.
It was a fantastic bike and I think one of the best all-around bikes out there (at least the Gen I). I think it was probably one of the technically best bikes I've owned, if not the best. Maybe not as fun as my SM was, but almost.It's a very personal thing anyway and out here, an 800cc is in the same insurance bracket as a 1000cc so it makes the switch sort of pointless. Our insurance classes in BC are as follows:
0-110
111-400
401-750
751-1150
1151+
There are very significant differences between the classes but the FZ8 would be lumped into the same class as the FZ1, so I agree--why not get the FZ1?
I see you like to play devil's advocate too.
Blavenia
Wizard
I'm still trying to figure out why someone would prefer an 800cc downsized version of the FZ1 when there are nice bikes out there like the Aprilia Shiver and Ducati Monster 696/796 out there that seem to have much more soul and immensely usable powerbands. I know there's no top end rush in these V-twins, but the Shiver seems a good deal and will attract some attention.
I know the BMW F800 will be quite a comparison as well, but at $9,999 base I think many will take the more powerful FZ8 over it.
I like the naked look of the FZ8 more than I like the look of our half-faired FZ1 to be honest, but when there are so many 08-09 FZ1s available for mid $7K money, who will ante up for the FZ8? I would imagine they would look for different engine architecture than an FZ1 of FZ8 like the Aprilia, or the "cool at the diary queen" feel of the air-cooled Monster.
I haven't yet seen the BMW 800 so I can't put a label on it, but I don't think it's a tremendous value.
What would you take? A leftover FZ1, a new FZ8, or a V-Twin like a Monster or Shiver for the same money as the FZ8? Of course, I know what we all ride, so we'd probably all say the FZ1! I'd say the FZ1 with a Retro Kit. Would anyone even consider the new F800 BMW with the Parallel Twin, or at that point do you look at the Kawasaki ER-6N or Versys and save a ton of cash?
I know the BMW F800 will be quite a comparison as well, but at $9,999 base I think many will take the more powerful FZ8 over it.
I like the naked look of the FZ8 more than I like the look of our half-faired FZ1 to be honest, but when there are so many 08-09 FZ1s available for mid $7K money, who will ante up for the FZ8? I would imagine they would look for different engine architecture than an FZ1 of FZ8 like the Aprilia, or the "cool at the diary queen" feel of the air-cooled Monster.
I haven't yet seen the BMW 800 so I can't put a label on it, but I don't think it's a tremendous value.
What would you take? A leftover FZ1, a new FZ8, or a V-Twin like a Monster or Shiver for the same money as the FZ8? Of course, I know what we all ride, so we'd probably all say the FZ1! I'd say the FZ1 with a Retro Kit. Would anyone even consider the new F800 BMW with the Parallel Twin, or at that point do you look at the Kawasaki ER-6N or Versys and save a ton of cash?
Brock Kickass
Wizard
Funny this comes up: I had a brand new FZ8 on order and cancelled it. I badly wanted a naked bike, but I found a brand new 2009 at a dealership while I was waiting for my 800 to come in. Even after I do the FZ1N headlight conversion, the 1000 is only going to cost me a few hundred dollars more than the 800. This is what I call a no-brainer. I get the sexy looks of the FZ8 (better even, the FZ1N headlight is much better-looking) with a wider rear tire, and an extra 40hp for when I want it. Even though the FZ1 will spend most of its life on the street, it's nice to know that the once a year I get the itch to go to a track and flog a bike I won't have to borrow or rent an R6. I also interested to see how much better mileage an 800 turns compared to an 1000 with the rider going easy on the throttle.
Dustin
Moderator
While I'm glad there's people out there who buy new bikes off the showroom floor (So I can buy them used for 1/2 price in a couple years), I could never understand why. It's true, a used FZ1 can be had for thousands and thousands less than a new FZ8 so why bother--it's not fair to compare new to used anyway so it's a moot point.
Crazyjoe
Wizard
I get my bike together and take it on the highway --- the very first thing I notice is the lack of wind protection from the tiny screen that came with the bike. I HATE A NAKED BIKE. period. At almost any speed -- the wind sucks. I don't see what anyone gets out of riding a bike like that.
Crazyjoe
Wizard
I agree with you --- buying a new bike is fine if you just like pissing away money. Or, possibly, if you're so old you can't wait for the bike you want to become used.
I really want a Honda 1000RR for the track but I have to wait until I can justify spending the money.As far as used ---- I have ridden the crap out of any bike I own and they all still run like they are new. I think these bikes have become bullet proof up till at least 75K miles. Therefore the difference between new and used, to me is simple, you get a lot more for your money used.
Brock Kickass
Wizard
I justify buying new in that I plan on keeping the bike for a long, long time. Financing is difficult when it comes to used bikes, so my choice is to spend the next 3 years saving up enough $$ to buy a used bike cash, or buy a new bike now, get payments I can afford, ride like hell for hose 3 years, and keep it long enough that I end up forgetting what I even paid for it. The added bonus is that I will know every single mile on the clock of my bike. I'll get the peace of mind that comes with knowing the maintenance history of my bike. 20 years from now,I will be glad looking at my bike and knowing for a fact that it's never missed an oil change, been stored properly, etc... Your point is true; you get more bike for your money if you buy used, but I get more time for my money buying new.
Crazyjoe
Wizard
There ya go -- there are always logical for making different decisions. I pay cash for all my bikes. I have never had a bike longer than 2 years without totaling it. So, I have the peace of mind of knowing that I use a bike for what I feel is it's intended purpose ---- to ride fast and learn how to ride fast.
If I didn't want to ride fast --- I would buy a skooter.
Dustin
Moderator
I can see where you're coming from. I quite like naked bikes and actually prefer them on the highway. Airflow is smooth around my head & neck & makes it quieter, plus the wind keeps my body up which reduces fatigue on my arms and core.
There's an ass for every seat I guess
I've always thought about buying new because you get a special experience having a minty-fresh out-of-the-crate bike with 0 miles that you and only you get to enjoy. I just can't justify the premium cost for it and don't finance anything ever.
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Blavenia
Wizard
Dustin, I think you might have misread my post. I was talking about brand new leftover FZ1s right next to new FZ8s for less money because they are last year's models.
I agree and understand the desire to save money by buying used, but if someone was looking at a new bike, why would they pay more for an FZ8 than a 2009 leftover FZ1, also new?
I just can't imagine anyone doing that.
Dustin
Moderator
Ahhh I see what you meant, I agree 100%