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Thread: DYNO Charts

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    Member PK001's Avatar
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    Default DYNO Charts

    Hi All,

    Is there a page/post where people have uploaded Dyno charts v's mods they have done to their bike?

    It would be cool to compare power and torque graphs

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    Senior Member Phil_RC_1's Avatar
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    There's no single collection here that I know of. A few are scattered around in various posts. Ivan has the best collection of comparison dyno runs that I'm aware of.
    Gen II here and
    Gen I here
    Since Ivan is a business, you have to take his with a grain of salt. However, they are done on the same dyno / same dyno operator, so that adds some validity to being able to compare his vaious gaphs and data. Also, his #'s and graphs tend to line-up reasonably well with other independent dyno graphs that I have seen posted from various sources.
    Last edited by Phil_RC_1; 12-06-2012 at 05:11 AM.
    My 09 FZ1 was STOLEN July 21st 2013.

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    Member PK001's Avatar
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    Check out this graph for a true representation of the effect the modifications will have on the power curve and reduction in time to generate the given power. The power v's time graph really highlights the low/mid range increase generated by the mods. Power comes on much sooner and and at any given point in time there is almost 20hp more!! Easy to see why the drivability of the bike is so good now.

    The red line is FZ1 which has the following mods -Arrow Headers, Leo Vince Slip-on, AIS Blocked, Opened Airbox, K&N Filter, Longer Velocity Stacks (Factory Pro), Shaved Secondary Butterflies (CD), Flashed ECU, PCV

    The blue line is an FZ1 with Slip-on, K&N filter and PC3, everything else was standard.

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    Member PK001's Avatar
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    Look at the A/F map though, the mechanic had a hard time tuning the A/F ratio down low on the moded bike. Said it is highly likely to be caused by the lars airbox mod changing the harmonics of the air box. Guess somethings got to give when chasing power! One benefit is that crusing at 100km/h @ 4500 RMP the bike is producing excellent fuel consumption figures. 180kms on 8.6L (4.77L/100kms) best result ive ever had!

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    Senior Member whittlebeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PK001 View Post
    Look at the A/F map though, the mechanic had a hard time tuning the A/F ratio down low on the modded bike. Said it is highly likely to be caused by the lars airbox mod changing the harmonics of the air box. Guess somethings got to give when chasing power! One benefit is that cruising at 100km/h @ 4500 RPM the bike is producing excellent fuel consumption figures. 180kms on 8.6L (4.77L/100kms) best result I've ever had!
    Your mechanic is apparently is in over his head on tuning. Note that most tuners only know how to tune the easy part, WOT from 3500 to 12000. All that sort of thing can be tuned out.

    Beast

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    Senior Member ethandf06's Avatar
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    ^ beast knows best!

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    Administrator va_rider's Avatar
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    Dyno charts are like snowflakes... no 2 are the same... I was down at Deal's Gap one year, and Wheeler's Performance was doing free Dyno days... I figured, why not, and put the FZ up there. A little wringing of the throttle and running through the gears, and he hands me a slip with the result..... 168HP... out of a Gen 1.... I laughed and threw the slip in the trash.... I'm sure he made a lot of people feel great about their bikes that day, but I knew that his reading was off by 20-25HP easy... At n event down in Myrtle Beach, a dynojet dyno had me at 142HP... this was slightly more believable, but still on the high side...

    There are so many variables when it comes to measuring horsepower, a dyno can really only be used as an extremely rough estimate of HP gains. Let's say that you rolled onto a dyno at 9AM with a stock FZ1... got a reading of 125HP... spent the morning jetting the carbs, porting boots, advancing the timing, changing gearing, etc... by the time you get on the dyno in the afternoon, you're reading 145HP... so, that's a gain of 20HP right? Wrong. A dyno is set for one specific set of conditions. If there was a change in temperature or humidity, the thing is no longer accurate... You can roll the same exact bike on the dyno at 8AM, 12PM, and 5PM, with no changes made to the bike, and get three different readings. Sometimes the difference being as high as 10-15HP...

    So... take dyno readings for what they are... a rough guess.. barely more accurate than the good ol "butt dyno", and in my opinion, less worthwhile. At least the butt dyno tells you how the bike feels to you... how it works for your riding style...

    That's my .02 on the subject... I'm willing to bet other will disagree...
    If it can be modded, it will be modded.

  8. #8
    Member PK001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_rider View Post
    Dyno charts are like snowflakes... no 2 are the same... I was down at Deal's Gap one year, and Wheeler's Performance was doing free Dyno days... I figured, why not, and put the FZ up there. A little wringing of the throttle and running through the gears, and he hands me a slip with the result..... 168HP... out of a Gen 1.... I laughed and threw the slip in the trash.... I'm sure he made a lot of people feel great about their bikes that day, but I knew that his reading was off by 20-25HP easy... At n event down in Myrtle Beach, a dynojet dyno had me at 142HP... this was slightly more believable, but still on the high side...

    There are so many variables when it comes to measuring horsepower, a dyno can really only be used as an extremely rough estimate of HP gains. Let's say that you rolled onto a dyno at 9AM with a stock FZ1... got a reading of 125HP... spent the morning jetting the carbs, porting boots, advancing the timing, changing gearing, etc... by the time you get on the dyno in the afternoon, you're reading 145HP... so, that's a gain of 20HP right? Wrong. A dyno is set for one specific set of conditions. If there was a change in temperature or humidity, the thing is no longer accurate... You can roll the same exact bike on the dyno at 8AM, 12PM, and 5PM, with no changes made to the bike, and get three different readings. Sometimes the difference being as high as 10-15HP...

    So... take dyno readings for what they are... a rough guess.. barely more accurate than the good ol "butt dyno", and in my opinion, less worthwhile. At least the butt dyno tells you how the bike feels to you... how it works for your riding style...

    That's my .02 on the subject... I'm willing to bet other will disagree...
    Hi VA Rider,

    You make some very vaild interesting points. Agree that there are many variables in the equation. The only control/consistency in this case being the mechanic and dyno, apart from that its a guessing game. Makes for interesting discussion though. I guess its interesting to compare where the bikes make power and the rate of change in the power/ torque curves rather than looking at the actual numbers. More interested in the behaviour throughout the rev ranges. As you can see above, the mods have shifted the power curve dramatically. Both bikes are making very simillar power, but i bet they would be totally different to ride.

    Cheers,
    PK
    Last edited by PK001; 12-07-2012 at 02:48 PM.

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    Member PK001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whittlebeast View Post
    Your mechanic is apparently is in over his head on tuning. Note that most tuners only know how to tune the easy part, WOT from 3500 to 12000. All that sort of thing can be tuned out.

    Beast
    Hi Beast,

    Can you provide some more insight into how the A/F ratio in the lower rev range can be tuned out? During the dyno runs we tried a variety of combinations in that range from -10% to +20% fuel adjustment and it was for different rev ranges, not just WOT, however all we were finding was the graph image would be mirrored, the peak/trough would swap ends (if that makes sense). It was very sensitive in this region and there was a lot of variation for even small incremental changes. The runs were performed on a licenced Dynojet Dyno using Dynojet tuning software. The engine temp was measured constantly an it was consistent during the tests, there was no variation in the weather the day the tests were performed.

    The bike represented by the blue graph above had a standard airbox and OEM velocity stacks. the red graph bike has a cut air box and longer velocity stacks. These were the only differences on the inlet side, which is why we came to the conclusion we did i.e. its the Vstack/box mods.

    Would appreciate any advice you may have from your exoeriences in resolving these issues as i'm only new to playing with motorbikes on a dyno.

    Cheers!
    PK
    Last edited by PK001; 12-07-2012 at 02:42 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member whittlebeast's Avatar
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    Throttle response and AFR recovery has a lot to do AE settings and the AFR of the bike when the throttle was punched. I have never played with a DJ Dyno but the on I use for the race cars allows me to toad the motor to say 2000 RPM for 3 sec at WOT and then the Dyno determines the RPM sweep rate that the motor comes up at. We normally have the motor sweep at the same rate that is typical at the track. With the FZ1, I find that the motor sweeps at between 2500 to 3000 RPM/sec in first when WOT testing is done.

    That dip is controlled by the AE settings once the ENTIRE midrange is tuned. Tuning the midrange is orders of magnitude more involved than the relatively trivial WOT stuff.

    Here is one of my fairly typical RPM sweeps.



    and

    http://www.ncs-stl.com/fz1/FZ1%2025%20to%2080.png

    The response time on a typical wideband is about .3 sec on a throttle stab when the o2s are a reasonable distance from the exhaust valve. When the o2 is way behind the muffler as is common at a dyno, all bets are off at fast sweep speeds. I do all of the fine tuning of this stuff with data loggers on the track in real world conditions.

    Beast

 

 

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